The Military and Trump: Questions for Dr. Cam

[Res Ipsa]

To both siderism our current situation is, I suggest, a moral failing. It is a cop out. It is exactly what allows things like Gad's neighbor threatening to murder liberals. It is the good man who, in the face of evil, does nothing.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. It's a particularly pernicious attitude, because it's seems reasonable in theory. I mean, it's reasonable to try to be as objective as possible about both sides of any given issue.

However, it's not reasonable, once you've looked at both sides, to come down evenly in your judgment every time. One side is generally more or less correct than the other. To shoehorn equality into both sides is to be biased against the more correct side.

It's the difference between arguing in a vacuum, and arguing in the context of the facts on the ground. Since everyone else is claiming fancy labels, I'm claiming post-modern pragmatist.

[honorentheos]

The issue isn't a case of both-siding. It's a comment about Moksha's posting being not too far off from the thing he was criticizing in terms of real world value and application.

Why do I think that matters? Well, the odds of a soft coup/civil war are unknown to me. But I guarantee that whatever they are, they are smaller than the odds of a Trump resurgence in 2024. And the odds of a shooting war/hard coup/complete collapse of democracy in that scenario are WAY too high.

Coup or not, we're on the cusp of a Biden administration taking over with House support and possible Senate support as well. What happens in the next 100 days will clearly leave the Trump faithful fuming regardless of what they do. But in this big ol' messy mixed stew that is the US we're tossing in ingredients that we won't be eating today or tomorrow. We'll be eating this stew two year, four years from now.

Frankly, I'm tired of the BS that keeps pushing the BS flywheel of partisan BS BS, BS.

You don't have to be a serious student of history to know where the precedents are in the last 100 years. Neilson Mandela, Ghandi are models of how to create a moment of growth out of what could have been incredibly destructive changes in power. And in both case there was still violence, Ghandi was assassinated, crap goes down. Expecting total, absolute surrender before one can find it in ones self to ask such simple questions as, "Am I, ME, not the other guy but ME, acting according to the necessary principles required to have a successful pluralistic society? Or am I just arguing for a change of guard?" Out with the old Hefe, meet the new Hefe?

Call if bothsider ism if you want. I not only don't see it that way at all, I think that's miles away from the actual argument being presented.

We don't come out of this successfully having acted like the Trumpers ourselves.

[Some Schmo]

It's the difference between arguing in a vacuum, and arguing in the context of the facts on the ground.

Yes.

Since everyone else is claiming fancy labels, I'm claiming post-modern pragmatist.

Nice.

I'm going with Reason Activist.

[honorentheos]

I don't really prefer to spend too much time on this board precisely because the effort has almost no return value in my mind. Most of my time on social media is discussing these things with friends and family who are eye balls deep in the conspiracy land of fraud and the like. These are crazy times, and frankly what I see among people I know is...concerning. But it's concerning because the belief systems of the two sides are pushing a narrative that other side is more or less evil.

You don't come back from that ledge once you go over it.

You just don't. The responses on the last few pages confirm just how badly we're teetering on it, too.

That's more damned lived in than any crap said on this board among people who mostly agree with you. So take that for what it's worth.

[Some Schmo]

We don't come out of this successfully having acted like the Trumpers ourselves.

Just so I have this straight: moksha making a joke about how tuned up deranged Trump fans are right now is the same as being a tuned up deranged Trump fan?

[honorentheos]

We don't come out of this successfully having acted like the Trumpers ourselves.

Just so I have this straight: moksha making a joke about how tuned up deranged Trump fans are right now is the same as being a tuned up deranged Trump fan?

Moksha said it wasn't a joke twice now. it was said humorously, but it wasn't a joke. Go read his comments. Seriously, Schmo, I get that this board is a place to vent for you, and you've been clear you aren't giving Trump's supporters any quarter. Fair enough, but it's not only not a solution it's adding fuel to a fire rather than clearing it away. Don't see it that way? Don't know what to tell you.

[dantana]

On and on. Thousands of comments by thousands of people mired in a braindead 'jenius reality. In fact, just look at the 'jenius. Look at what he posts and how he interacts with board participants. You wanna know what's scary? He and they are representative of the average person and average voter. They're freakin’ retarded. All of 'em. It's easy to think the board participants here are the average, the mean, for intelligence. We're not. It's a horrifying and sobering realization we're actually far above what the average person is. And I'm an idiot. I mean that. I'm like *this far away* from a mouthbreather. And if I'm that far away, man, we're in a bad way.

- Doc

I agree. And that means we should be able to out-smart them, instead of rolling in the mud with them. (not accusing you) Pen is mightier...and all.

by the way Doc, your ability to wordsmith and self analyze is... A+

[Res Ipsa]

I don't really prefer to spend too much time on this board precisely because the effort has almost no return value in my mind. Most of my time on social media is discussing these things with friends and family who are eye balls deep in the conspiracy land of fraud and the like. These are crazy times, and frankly what I see among people I know is...concerning. But it's concerning because the belief systems of the two sides are pushing a narrative that other side is more or less evil.

You don't come back from that ledge once you go over it.

You just don't. The responses on the last few pages confirm just how badly we're teetering on it, too.

That's more freakin’ lived in than any crap said on this board among people who mostly agree with you. So take that for what it's worth.

What belief system is pushing folks on the left to pick up guns and slaughter their neighbors? I'm not big on the concept of evil. But if I were, wouldn't that qualify as evil?

[Some Schmo]

Seriously, Schmo, I get that this board is a place to vent for you, and you've been clear you aren't giving Trump's supporters any quarter. Fair enough, but it's not only not a solution it's adding fuel to a fire rather than clearing it away. Don't see it that way? Don't know what to tell you.

I completely understand why you see it this way. I'm not in denial about it. It just feels like I'm adding to a ball of fire that doesn't need my help, nor is there enough water in the world to put it out. The sun is burning out of control and I'm blowing on it like it's a birthday candle.

I take solace in the fact that very few Trump fans hang out here, and it's not a very famous board. I doubt I would talk this way if I were a politician. Thankfully, I don't have the deception in me.

[Some Schmo]

I don't really prefer to spend too much time on this board precisely because the effort has almost no return value in my mind.

Just out of curiosity, what would increase its return for you? Are you asking for something here?