The Beginning of the End of Mormonism?

[Jersey Girl]

Yes, I have. Why do you ask?

IThat show always motivates me to start throwing things away. Hording really is a disease.

Oh yes, I agree. If you watch it enough (which I used to do) you will see the recurring theme of wounds and great loss. Most of those folks have been so hurt in life that they basically build a fortress around themselves. It's so sad sometimes especially when you see how the hoard has destroyed their actual homes. But I understand that they are suffering from a kind of protective delusion. My mother was a bit of a hoarder. Not like you see on the show but still, she saved things. I think that came from being a child of the Great Depression (don't waste anything) and she also suffered great loss when her baby died and her husband cheated on her and left to start a new family. I know without question that she suffered from depression following the death of her baby, my little brother of whom I have just one single memory. And then the double whammy of my father cheating on her with her own step sister. How much can one person really take? She worked full time and it was hard for her to clean and organize. And yet, she was a strong woman at the same time. Well, people are complicated.

Me, I'm a cleaner. I've been cleaning my whole life back into childhood due to the aforementioned circumstances. Ordering my environment is therapy for me. I need space and while I am not OCD about it, I absolutely enjoy a peaceful home without visual clutter.

Now the minimalist lady I watch, I appreciate her on multiple levels. She has very little inventory in her home and yet, she is also an artist. That has always been a challenge for me to balance my creative side with the part that wants reduced clutter and space. If you know anyone who is creative, once we get rolling we make a crazy mess but that is how we function. Or at least how I function and I would like to improve my approach. I also like her cooking and the fact that she cleans without chemicals. I've enjoyed using her homemade cleaning recipes the past couple of years. It's such a simple life and that's what I've been working towards since I stopped teaching.

What I am after is not really being able to put all my worldly goods into a Budget box truck, but creating more usable space. I have a plan to create a larger studio for myself in our basement because I work out of a spare bedroom right now that is used for overnights--but not right now--so now is a good time to finish my decrapifying work and get that studio together so I can work and not mess up the living areas of my home. I have to say, the bones are already looking pretty darn good to me and I am excited about it as I plan to start selling again in early fall!

But first...more editing has to happen. If you want another motivator for purging "stuff" I highly recommend Walden by Thoreau if you can get past the fact that it's somewhat of a dry read, it's filled with wisdom. I typically read it every fall as if I am the one who went to Walden Pond and experienced how that wisdom developed.

But yes, Hoarders will get you looking around for what you neglected and figure out that maybe someone else could be blessed by what you have laying around unattended to. That's why I think we still have an ungodly amount of stuff because we don't need everything that we have and someone else could use it. I've donated so much already but I know I can get really cutthroat and donate more. I love the before and after pics that they do on that show! Except of course for the physical destruction of some of the houses which makes me so sad for those folks I just cannot tell you.

[ajax18]

I know without question that she suffered from depression following the death of her baby, my little brother of whom I have just one single memory. And then the double whammy of my father cheating on her with her own step sister. How much can one person really take? She worked full time and it was hard for her to clean and organize.

That's the saddest thing I ever heard. For me, I need my faith and my beliefs to live through something like that and to choose to keep living after that. If I were limited to only what we have strict empirical evidence of I wouldn't be able to find the reasons that would give me the strength to bear any of that.

I went to fix my daughters bike. Finding the tools ended up being an hour long project. I love living in south, especially this time of year, but it really sucks not having a basement. My Dad used to have his work bench and all his tools in the entire basement. Then we also built sheds and giant garages.

I remember when some of my friends inherited a house. Their poor grandmother had layers of stuff. Most layers were made of the same things. Things would get buried. She'd no longer be able to find them and then she'd buy the same stuff and watch it get buried all over again.

[Some Schmo]

We moved and sold our house in preparation for leaving the country, should the election have gone badly. We are completely mobile right now - we can go anywhere.

Part of the move involved finding people to take our things. We gave away our living room furniture, our master bed, washer/drier, riding lawnmower, and a ton of other stuff I can't remember anymore. We basically had a "everything's free" lawn sale without the lawn sale. We had a 5000+ sq. ft house, and although I'm proud to say the basement was always pretty tidy and the whole house always looked pretty sparse (we hate clutter), a house that size can still become surprisingly full of junk. Fortunately, we had plenty of friends who needed things. We knew one young newly married couple who had just bought a new house, so we set them up well. That was a lot of fun. The only thing it cost everyone was having to pick up what they wanted. Win win.

Anyway, we've downsized to a 2 bedroom condo, and that meant getting rid of stuff. A lot of stuff. Best feeling in the world.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

That’s really admirable Some Schmo. It’s a good feeling to feel nimble with your life.

- Doc

[Jersey Girl]

I know without question that she suffered from depression following the death of her baby, my little brother of whom I have just one single memory. And then the double whammy of my father cheating on her with her own step sister. How much can one person really take? She worked full time and it was hard for her to clean and organize.

That's the saddest thing I ever heard. For me, I need my faith and my beliefs to live through something like that and to choose to keep living after that. If I were limited to only what we have strict empirical evidence of I wouldn't be able to find the reasons that would give me the strength to bear any of that.

My mother was a Christian woman, ajax. She modeled perseverance before me like no one I have ever seen in my life. I think their marriage deteriorated on account of the baby's death. I am sure of it. Back then, no one went to counseling except maybe the rich folks? Some of the people that know me well tell me I should write a book about my life and I always say, I'm not that good of a writer and no one would believe it anyway. So I will tell you more. My aunt got pregnant as a result of her relationship with my father. I had virtually no understanding or awareness of what happened at the time. I just knew that everyone who lived in our house--left. I don't recall anyone explaining a single thing to me and I think I would remember it if they did. The following year after he left with my aunt, my aunt called and wanted to take me swimming at a state park. I was ten years old by then. My mother agreed to it. She told me not to let her in the house and only let her get a beach umbrella out of our utility room that was accessible from an outside door. When my aunt came to pick me up, I did just what my mother told me to do. When we went to her car, I got in the front seat and there was a baby in the back seat. My aunt told me "That's your sister". I had NO idea what that meant. I had no idea how I had a sister or how my aunt had my sister in her car. I didn't know where my father was or that he lived with my aunt. Over time, I came to understand and work things out. Back then, children didn't question adults.

Fast forward oh, 20-ish more years or more. I was about to have my second child. My husband was deployed overseas. My mother came to be my birth coach. We spent the holidays together for the first time in 13 years. A blessing!!! During that time we had a chance to discuss many things one:one. Somehow or another we got round to talking about my brother. She told me that my father blamed her for his death and not giving the baby enough or too much medicine. She said her hands shook when giving him the meds on a teaspoon and sometimes a bit spilled off. Her hands shook because she was nervous, trying to do the exact right thing for her baby. She said "I would have never hurt him." and I told her that I knew that. If you knew my mother, she was the kindest, sweetest, most loving, gentle, kind, generous, and yet strong person you could know in life. ajax, I know how my brother died. He had had a tumor removed from his brain and then he got an infection in the hospital. I have his death certificate. It says he died of sepsis.

So if I could dig up my father and confront him, I would want to know if he ever bothered to read his death certificate and otherwise where were YOU when she was dosing the baby?

My mother died 3 weeks before my second child was born so then I took a turn with depression. I want you to know this, my father died at age 56. The baby in the back seat lost her father when she was also 9 years old. Years later when my aunt was dying of cancer in her 30's and my mother found out about it, she went to her sister to visit with her, she brought her a wig, and helped to arrange her funeral and attended. And why did she go? As she told me, "Because she doesn't have anyone else.". THAT was the stuff that my mother was made of.

Yeah, if I wrote down the whole life story over here, you wouldn't believe it. I don't believe it all half the time. But I will tell you what and I have said this before to you. Life is filled with crap and life is also filled with blessings untold. About 7 years ago now, one of my sisters hunted me down and found me. I had always promised myself that I would never contact any of them and so I never did. She and the other kids had found stuff about me in their parent's belongings so they knew that something was up. In our email exchanges she said she wondered how her parents got together. After sleeping on it for 24 hours, I decided to tell my truth to my own sister. Since then, I have reunited with all 4 of my siblings. We look like each other. We actually act a lot like each other. It was like we KNEW each other. And the one sister who contacted me is my closest friend/sister now. I can't even believe that in a real way, I got my family back in the most unexpected way and together we all agreed that we made the wrong things right. Everyone has the truth inasmuch as we can know it and we all have each other.

I went to fix my daughters bike. Finding the tools ended up being an hour long project. I love living in south, especially this time of year, but it really sucks not having a basement. My Dad used to have his work bench and all his tools in the entire basement. Then we also built sheds and giant garages.

That happens to my husband ALL the time! Two years in a row now I have fallen short on helping him organize his tool collection in our garage. He is a mechanic type car junkie who has all kinds of tools but he has a hard time with physical tasks so the putting away of stuff gets often neglected. It takes him forever to find a simple screw driver. But I will get to that in spring. Storage can sure be an issue but what gets me is how people rent storage units for their extra stuff. You have got to know there is a problem when you are say, making a house payment AND paying rent to store all your stuff!

I remember when some of my friends inherited a house. Their poor grandmother had layers of stuff. Most layers were made of the same things. Things would get buried. She'd no longer be able to find them and then she'd buy the same stuff and watch it get buried all over again.

My husband does that sometimes. He can't find a certain tool so he borrows it from someone else when I know good and well he has the tool..but he can't keep things organized the way he used to.

Good grief, the world is full of people with too much stuff! That is why I recommend Thoreau or like you suggested, Hoarders. It will break you out of your own misery!

[Jersey Girl]

We moved and sold our house in preparation for leaving the country, should the election have gone badly. We are completely mobile right now - we can go anywhere.

Part of the move involved finding people to take our things. We gave away our living room furniture, our master bed, washer/drier, riding lawnmower, and a ton of other stuff I can't remember anymore. We basically had a "everything's free" lawn sale without the lawn sale. We had a 5000+ sq. ft house, and although I'm proud to say the basement was always pretty tidy and the whole house always looked pretty sparse (we hate clutter), a house that size can still become surprisingly full of junk. Fortunately, we had plenty of friends who needed things. We knew one young newly married couple who had just bought a new house, so we set them up well. That was a lot of fun. The only thing it cost everyone was having to pick up what they wanted. Win win.

Anyway, we've downsized to a 2 bedroom condo, and that meant getting rid of stuff. A lot of stuff. Best feeling in the world.

That is an amazing process! I still had stuff here from decrapifying that I was wanting to sell on marketplace but with the pandemic, I'm not about to go meeting up or having many people over. So I got to donate one set of furniture to a local ministry that picked it up. They are getting one of our dining sets before long here, too. I also noticed on our Facebook community page this one man was posting a ton of his clothing for free to anyone who needed it.I think I am going to do that with some of Jersey Boy's clothing since my own clothing was purged a long time ago. It is just such a good feeling to actually give things away instead of selling them. I mean it's nice to make some cash off something but when you know you have all you really need it's just so cool to give things away.

I love hearing about what you guys did!

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose...because maybe you gave it all away and broke free of it!

[Jersey Girl]

Schmo I saw your earlier post about the belief thing and misattribution. I just haven't gotten round to replying on that yet. I will.

[Themis]

Even my surgeon/stake president agreed me with me that COVID was entirely political. I'm sure that alone would qualify him as an idiot on this board. And yet he was top of his med school class and he is unlike me a medical doctor. He's not an idiot. The people who judge him to be so are just carnal men who will never understand the things of the spirit.

The problem is you have not defined what entirely political means. Then we only have your interpretation of what you think he is saying, which is filtered through your own bias. Possibly he was agreeing with you just to be polite. So many do this and I know many who don't realize that someone is just being nice and thinks the opposite of how they may come across.

[Themis]

Yeah, I know it's a controversial subject among us nonbelievers. I believe that most people see themselves as good people and aspire to be better people. I'll bet you are one of them.

Almost everyone thinks they are good people. Even people like Hitler, Trump, Joseph Smith, Stalin, etc.

Is there anything or anyone that you think helps you be a good or become a better person? Or do you just tap some inner reservoir of innate goodness?

Biology plays a large role in how we behave and think what is good or bad. This is reflected in our many organizations, religious organizations playing a large role. Most of what I think is good and bad is heavily influenced by biology and religious/political influence over thousands of years. As believers we tend to take most of what our religious groups dictates as good or bad, but as we lost those religious beliefs we almost always start to review what is good or bad. Some are happy to stay with a religious group and will do more to distinguish what they find good or of value in a religion and ignore what they find bad. I'm not sure if being in a religion makes a person better, but not being religious I suspect doesn't make them any worse.

[Res Ipsa]

To be clear, I’m not claiming that religion makes people into better people. Or that every religious person would be a worse person without their religion. I’m putting religion on par with other things that motivate people to become better people.