The view from the Center

[Dr Exiled]

How does he explain Biden's record win in 2020 then? I do agree with him -- and I have for a long time -- that the single biggest rhetorical weapon right-wingers have is gender war stuff.

I think that's a questions for historians. The massive leap in votes that Biden got, assuming it wasn't fraud, really needs to be studied. My uneducated guess is something related to the fear about COVID (remember back then we still had no idea how bad it would get) and Trump not being able to effectively manage that crisis.

COVID gets my vote, plus the chaos created during the summer run up to the election (people were agitated and blamed Trump it seems) and it seems easier to vote by mail. I wonder what the mail in v. in-person comparisons will be between 2020 and 2024?

[Dr. Shades]

And if you think he’s not on the center, you’re the problem.

How so?

[drumdude]

And if you think he’s not on the center, you’re the problem.

How so?

In Sam Harris’s view, the left has gone so far to the extreme that anyone who doesn’t support their extreme views is automatically placed on the right. If you don’t support 3rd trimester abortions, if you don’t want transgender people competing against women, if you don’t want reparations for slavery, if you don’t want an open border, then you’re basically the same as Trump.

The center is by definition a moderate position between the extremes of the left and right, where you’re able to criticize both parties and also acknowledge the strengths of both parties. And Sam Harris seems to occupy that space, or close to it.

The problem Sam sees is that the left has demonized those moderates in the center and lost their votes.

[Gadianton]

Does he have an example of who is like that? I'm just not seeing it. I don't know many on the "left', Res Ipsa is about as left as anyone I know. My left-most wing friend who is also an immigrant who hates Trumpism more than anyone -- who has been a victim of it because he lives in a white-right neighborhood -- thinks Elon Musk can do no wrong and is a victim of Biden and is totally justified supporting Trump. The leftists I know are too self-critical if you ask me. However, I am aware that there are people like you suggest. Do you have an example of leftist in social media who are like this? All the anti-Trump stuff I see is a far cry from it. I can think of certain enclaves of feminism that I could understand offending the average Joe, but I say "to each their own" and move on, because I don't see any of this as having real power over peoples lives.

[Dwight]

Every time someone has tried to sell me on Sam Harris the little bit I see he just doesn't jibe with me as actually being an honest broker. He does point out problems on both sides, but the way he treats systematic researched studied problems on the right is often given lip service, or not delved deeply into, then he will turn around and use anecdotal cases on the left as a big example of systematic problems on the left, when there is no evidence that it is systematic. The plural of anecdote is not data.

[drumdude]

Does he have an example of who is like that? I'm just not seeing it. I don't know many on the "left', Res Ipsa is about as left as anyone I know. My left-most wing friend who is also an immigrant who hates Trumpism more than anyone -- who has been a victim of it because he lives in a white-right neighborhood -- thinks Elon Musk can do no wrong and is a victim of Biden and is totally justified supporting Trump. The leftists I know are too self-critical if you ask me. However, I am aware that there are people like you suggest. Do you have an example of leftist in social media who are like this? All the anti-Trump stuff I see is a far cry from it. I can think of certain enclaves of feminism that I could understand offending the average Joe, but I say "to each their own" and move on, because I don't see any of this as having real power over peoples lives.

Sam says they're mostly on Twitter and in academia, two places I'm not constantly around like he is. The nice thing about those particular places is that the first is mostly anonymous, and accounts and posts are easily deleted. Academia is similarly out of view of most of the public, unless you happen to have the time to be on a university campus and listen in on liberal professors' classes.

Recently the left wing has pivoted to the center, with Kamala saying "don't come here" and Democrats saying they're pro-gun and anti-illegal immigration. It's a rapid 180, disingenuous, and transparent ploy to most everyone watching. It's a little gaslighty for them to forget what they were saying during the George Floyd protests. They literally wanted to get rid of policing because it was "too racist."

[huckelberry]

Does he have an example of who is like that? I'm just not seeing it. I don't know many on the "left', Res Ipsa is about as left as anyone I know. My left-most wing friend who is also an immigrant who hates Trumpism more than anyone -- who has been a victim of it because he lives in a white-right neighborhood -- thinks Elon Musk can do no wrong and is a victim of Biden and is totally justified supporting Trump. The leftists I know are too self-critical if you ask me. However, I am aware that there are people like you suggest. Do you have an example of leftist in social media who are like this? All the anti-Trump stuff I see is a far cry from it. I can think of certain enclaves of feminism that I could understand offending the average Joe, but I say "to each their own" and move on, because I don't see any of this as having real power over peoples lives.

Sam says they're mostly on Twitter and in academia, two places I'm not constantly around like he is. The nice thing about those particular places is that the first is mostly anonymous, and accounts and posts are easily deleted. Academia is similarly out of view of most of the public, unless you happen to have the time to be on a university campus and listen in on liberal professors' classes.

Recently the left wing has pivoted to the center, with Kamala saying "don't come here" and Democrats saying they're pro-gun and anti-illegal immigration. It's a rapid 180, disingenuous, and transparent ploy to most everyone watching. It's a little gaslighty for them to forget what they were saying during the George Floyd protests. They literally wanted to get rid of policing because it was "too racist."

Outside of fox news and a few kids in the street who said we should get rid of police? Drumdude, the right wing news works very hard to find extreme comments from the left and paint all outside of foxworld with those comments. Then when the normal Democratic views are heard they sound like a reversal..

[drumdude]

Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council appeared at an event in June 2020 in which they pledged that they would work to dismantle the police force in the city. They did so on a stage that featured large cutout letters spelling out "Defund Police."

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/05/poli ... -democrats

That message was picked up by some of the most liberal members of Congress -- from Minnesota's Ilhan Omar to Michigan's Rashida Tlaib.

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, perhaps the best known progressive in Congress, warned that dismissing calls to defund the police -- or, at the very least, to reconsider the way police interact with a community -- was a mistake. "It is not crazy for Black and brown communities to want what White people have already given themselves and that is funding your schools more than you fund criminalizing your own kids," she said.

9 minutes of Democratic leaders talking about defunding the police:
https://youtu.be/NnWn_-GAXa4

A few quotes from the video (there are a ton)

Beto O’Rourke: “in some cases completely dismantling”

San Francisco DA Boudin: “we can talk about abolition”

[huckelberry]

Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council appeared at an event in June 2020 in which they pledged that they would work to dismantle the police force in the city. They did so on a stage that featured large cutout letters spelling out "Defund Police."

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/05/poli ... -democrats

That message was picked up by some of the most liberal members of Congress -- from Minnesota's Ilhan Omar to Michigan's Rashida Tlaib.

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, perhaps the best known progressive in Congress, warned that dismissing calls to defund the police -- or, at the very least, to reconsider the way police interact with a community -- was a mistake. "It is not crazy for Black and brown communities to want what White people have already given themselves and that is funding your schools more than you fund criminalizing your own kids," she said.

9 minutes of Democratic leaders talking about defunding the police:
https://youtu.be/NnWn_-GAXa4

A few quotes from the video (there are a ton)

Beto O’Rourke: “in some cases completely dismantling”

San Francisco DA Boudin: “we can talk about abolition”

Drudude you have links here which are helpful to clarify this. What I hear are comments about changing funding amounts to give more support to mental health and education in some areas. There were some calls to restucture police to try and change so inbred policies.

I think after being put through a political filter those could sound like get rid of police. Some poorly thought out presentations died rather rapidly. The corpse left a politically useful smell.

"We committed to dismantling policing as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community a new model of public safety that actually keeps our community safe," City Council President Lisa Bender told CNN at the time.

That message was picked up by some of the most liberal members of Congress -- from Minnesota's Ilhan Omar to Michigan's Rashida Tlaib.

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, perhaps the best known progressive in Congress, warned that dismissing calls to defund the police -- or, at the very least, to reconsider the way police interact with a community -- was a mistake. "It is not crazy for Black and brown communities to want what White people have already given themselves and that is funding your schools more than you fund criminalizing your own kids," she said.

from your link,thanks

[drumdude]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/05/poli ... -democrats





9 minutes of Democratic leaders talking about defunding the police:
https://youtu.be/NnWn_-GAXa4

A few quotes from the video (there are a ton)

Beto O’Rourke: “in some cases completely dismantling”

San Francisco DA Boudin: “we can talk about abolition”

Drudude you have links here which are helpful to clarify this. What I hear are comments about changing funding amounts to give more support to mental health and education in some areas. There were some calls to restucture police to try and change so inbred policies.

I think after being put through a political filter those could sound like get rid of police. Some poorly thought out presentations died rather rapidly. The corpse left a politically useful smell.

"We committed to dismantling policing as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community a new model of public safety that actually keeps our community safe," City Council President Lisa Bender told CNN at the time.

That message was picked up by some of the most liberal members of Congress -- from Minnesota's Ilhan Omar to Michigan's Rashida Tlaib.

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, perhaps the best known progressive in Congress, warned that dismissing calls to defund the police -- or, at the very least, to reconsider the way police interact with a community -- was a mistake. "It is not crazy for Black and brown communities to want what White people have already given themselves and that is funding your schools more than you fund criminalizing your own kids," she said.

from your link,thanks

I agree there’s a lot of nuance there. Unfortunately most Americans were left with the impression that Democrats were anti-police and Republicans were the party of law and order.

In many ways Democrats have it much harder because they are the party of nuance and facts. Republicans don’t have to deal with those pesky things under Trump.