Feeling Stupid. . . . . .

[_SPG]

Oh no you don't, Amore:

diabetes: a disease in which the body’s ability to produce or respond to the hormone insulin is impaired, resulting in abnormal metabolism of carbohydrates and elevated levels of glucose in the blood and urine.

Diabetes isn't a disease, it's a rebellion. The resistance of the muscles and brain is the cells refusing to take more.

This dictionary definition is BS and misleading. First, there are countless varieties of it. But my body produces a lot of insulin, which is actually another deadly symptom. Still not enough to overcome the resistance in cells. Putting more insulin in to artificial means increases other risks.

[Guest]

Diabetes is caused because your chakras are unaligned. I recommend homeopathy and acupuncture.

[_honorentheos]

SPG may in this instance be trying to have his cake and eat it too

Apparently, not just in this instance.

[_Res Ipsa]

I was wondering, in the scope of things. How many of us feel stupid for having been deceived, (for those that think they were) and how that sits with how they feel about things now.

No, I don't feel stupid in the slightest. I have a pretty good handle on how and why I was deceived, and rather than beating myself up about it, I do my best to use that understanding to avoid being deceived. So far, so good.

Does anyone feel comfortable with how they think about God, the universe, and stuff now, whereas in they thought Joseph Smith deceived them?

I'm perfectly comfortable with how I think about God, the universe, and especially stuff. I see Joseph's deception and the existence of God as separate issues.

I was doing a lecture that other day and the subject was, "Believing for the effect of it, not the truth of it." For example, most of the old rulers, pharaohs, emperors, some kings, Hercules, Horus, Osiris, not to forget Jesus, all thought they were sons of God. And Jesus, bless him, tried to convince us we were children of God.

I'm skeptical of the notion that I can choose to believe for effect rather than truth. in my opinion, trying to force oneself to believe something that one knows or even suspects is not true is mental unhealthy. You're asserting cause and effect here with no evidence -- which frankly is one of those things that Mormonism deceived me about.

Knowing full well there is not way to prove it, how does it sit with non-believers the effects of these types of beliefs. Like, the ruling social powers of the earth of God believers. Probably always will. Does it bother you that I think I am a son of God?

Does something have to be true to believe it, or could you believe it just for the effect of believing it?

I don't think there is sufficient evidence to show that believing false things results in net good. I think there is a great danger that believing in false things will result in substantial harm. The Holocaust is a great example. As for you believing you are a son of God, it all depends on what the consequences of that are. If you think that holding that belief makes you somehow superior to your fellow humans, yes it would bother me. If you believe that it justified you in harming your fellow humans, yes it would bother me. If it meant you believed you were justified in imposing your beliefs on your fellow humans, it would bother me. If you simply use that belief as a way to be a better human, doesn't bother me at all.

I think that doing my best to figure out what is true and using that as a basis for how I live my life is a healthier approach than trying to bend the truth to what I want to believe.

[_Amore]

Who has ever felt sad, happy, excited, scared, angry or any other emotion? Sometimes - especially when the emotion is exaggerated compared to circumstances - the thoughts that produced the emotion are wrong - not in accordance with reality. You believe things that are not true.

If you haven’t learned better, even when facts are shown to you to show your belief is wrong, you STILL believe the bull crap - even if it is not only incorrect but also is hurting you &/or others. These principles of emotional intelligence applies to everyone.

[_SPG]

Who has ever felt sad, happy, excited, scared, angry or any other emotion? Sometimes - especially when the emotion is exaggerated compared to circumstances - the thoughts that produced the emotion are wrong - not in accordance with reality. You believe things that are not true.

If you haven’t learned better, even when facts are shown to you to show your belief is wrong, you STILL believe the bull ____ - even if it is not only incorrect but also is hurting you &/or others. These principles of emotional intelligence applies to everyone.

I don't think there is sufficient evidence to show that believing false things results in net good.

Res Ipsa, I don't think you can put this into a "good or bad" evidence sort of situation. I'm talking about effect, not judging the result. . . .yet. As Amore said, believing someone betrayed you can be gut wrenching, to the point you might destroy or kill, and then maybe find out your are wrong. History is filled with such stories.

But, I'm suggesting we really don't know what is true, but choose to believe things for the net benefit. I know a lot of people disagree, but I think that without religion, we would still be swinging in trees. Believing that God was angry with us, or wanted us to do something, has more or less brought us here. I don't think it has all been good, but the overall effect I think is.

There was a movie I loved called the "Hog Father." The specters of the universe put out a hit on [Santa Claus] because believers were messing with the universe. But the end lesson, taught by the Grim Reaper was, "we teach the little lies so that people can believe the big lies. Because if you grind down the universe to dust you will not find one particle of honor, courage, hope, or loyalty.

Believing that we should be nice isn't a cosmic rule, and sometimes is actually destructive, but mostly it is good. The idea of "father" is made up. Nature, mostly doesn't care who the father is. Fathers have "evolved" out of the belief that we are committed to the mother. We still practice this idea, and not everyone does a good job. But its a "belief" that isn't necessarily based on truth.

[_Res Ipsa]

I don't think there is sufficient evidence to show that believing false things results in net good.

Res Ipsa, I don't think you can put this into a "good or bad" evidence sort of situation. I'm talking about effect, not judging the result. . . .yet. As Amore said, believing someone betrayed you can be gut wrenching, to the point you might destroy or kill, and then maybe find out your are wrong. History is filled with such stories.

It looks to me as if judging the result is exactly what you are doing. Your whole pitch here seems to be something like: believing in things that are false isn't bad because the belief itself can have net positive effect. You can't make that pitch without judging the results. If all you were saying is that a person's beliefs affects their behavior, I don't think you would have gotten any pushback.

But, I'm suggesting we really don't know what is true, but choose to believe things for the net benefit.

Why do you suggest that? In my experience, my brain doesn't even work that way. I know that if I walk into my coffee table, it's going too hurt and I'll get a bruise. At no time has my brain ever said anything like "regardless of whether or not the coffee table is there, is there a net good from believing it's not there? If so, let's believe its not there. You can suggest my brain actually flips a mental coin to decide what it believes, but that doesn't make it a valuable suggestion.

I know a lot of people disagree, but I think that without religion, we would still be swinging in trees. Believing that God was angry with us, or wanted us to do something, has more or less brought us here. I don't think it has all been good, but the overall effect I think is.

Isn't the truth that you have absolutely no idea whether without religion we would be swinging from the trees or swinging from the stars? And the same is true for overall effect -- you have no idea what the world would have been without belief in God. So why think that? Is it that you like the story with the tiger better? Because that's what it kind of looks like from here. All of these paragraphs of mangled science look like a brain that has serious doubts about the existence of God and also desperately wants to believe in the existence of God. If you have to torture scientific knowledge to this degree to get the doubting part of your brain to confess that God is real, maybe you're on the wrong track. Maybe treating dreams and visions as true and meaningful and then bending reality to try and fit isn't the best way to go.

There was a movie I loved called the "Hog Father." The specters of the universe put out a hit on [Santa Claus] because believers were messing with the universe. But the end lesson, taught by the Grim Reaper was, "we teach the little lies so that people can believe the big lies. Because if you grind down the universe to dust you will not find one particle of honor, courage, hope, or loyalty.

Haven't seen the movie so I don't get the point. What big lies? I agree that if you grind "the universe" down, you won't find any of those things. God either.

Believing that we should be nice isn't a cosmic rule, and sometimes is actually destructive, but mostly it is good. The idea of "father" is made up. Nature, mostly doesn't care who the father is. Fathers have "evolved" out of the belief that we are committed to the mother. We still practice this idea, and not everyone does a good job. But its a "belief" that isn't necessarily based on truth.

I have the same problem understanding this that Gad has pointed out. You use different meanings of the term "belief" and treat them as all the same. But the fact that we believe things that are not true does not mean that, given the choice, we should believe false things.

[_cwald]

... All of these paragraphs of mangled science look like a brain that has serious doubts about the existence of God and also desperately wants to believe in the existence of God.

THE END.


That is it. That is what mental gymnastics is all about. And for saying so and pointing it out is exactly why I got banned from stayLDS and had to move on from NOM.


These discussions with SPG, and so many desperately middle way Mormon and christians, go WAY back. I'm just surprised they are happening here, especially in the Telestrial Kingdom. Unlike stayLDS and NOM, this kind of irrational bull crap mental gymnastics is not going to go unchallenged. No moderators are going to step in to protect the fragile faith of those who desperately want to believe in the Mormon God.

[_SPG]

... All of these paragraphs of mangled science look like a brain that has serious doubts about the existence of God and also desperately wants to believe in the existence of God.

THE END.


That is it. That is what mental gymnastics is all about. And for saying so and pointing it out is exactly why I got banned from stayLDS and had to move on from NOM.


These discussions with SPG, and so many desperately middle way Mormon and christians, go WAY back. I'm just surprised they are happening here, especially in the Telestrial Kingdom. Unlike stayLDS and NOM, this kind of irrational bull ____ mental gymnastics is not going to go unchallenged. No moderators are going to step in to protect the fragile faith of those who desperately want to believe in the Mormon God.

Res Ipsa, you say this as if I haven't basically admitted it. In my search for God, I haven't found the Mormon God. I have met Archangels, Michael included, but none of them brought up Mormonism.

But, I have found so much more. There is no shortage of stuff to believe in. In fact, I feel like a kid in a candy show, diabetes not withstanding. I was angry at God. Then I cursed God and went about trying to understand the world without God.

I didn't get far. A world without God made no sense to me. The more I tried to explain life without higher beings the more stupid it seemed.

I see so much more than what science tries to explain. Someone said that science admits they don't understand everything. But they don't even acknowledge stuff like the soul, memories of past lives, connection to higher beings through mediation, psychic visions of other beings.

I have tried to share my ideas and experiences with what I might consider parallel ideas or sciences. I am trying to discuss my ideas and perspective with a common language. I am not trying to convert anyone. But I have found a few people that seem to understand. I don't try to brain was them, they just seen to see what I see, in part.

That you guys think you have nailed me down and boxed me in, you haven't even come close. I admit I don't know much, but I believe a lot of things strongly enough I would be my life on.

Do I have doubts? Tons and tons. Do I want God to exist? Absolutely!

But one doubt I don't have: Is there a God? I could not find evidence that there wasn't a God. I could describe God several ways. But you cannot show someone God, they have to find him.

[_honorentheos]

Warning, Not Safe for Work. But it's about the right level of response. Watching in sequence is recommended but I guess not absolutely necessary. Because life is like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evYxx8qjZFs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_qvy82U4RE