Certain people can't ever get it right

[mentalgymnast]

...your...god is pro-slavery.

No He’s not.

Been reading what you will/want into the Old Testament, huh? You aren’t the first and won’t be the last.

You really have it in for believers, don’t you?

Is civility to much to ask of a person who makes up their own ethics and spins their own moral compass?

Your put downs don’t make you a man.

God is good. How could he be anything else? Use some common sense.

Regards,
MG

[Lem]

Ok. I guess we don’t know what it means. I suppose I don’t understand using jargon that I myself wouldn’t understand in context to theology, but then again that might explain why I’m an ex-theist, as Chap would put it.

Hrm. Huck. I gotta tell ya. This whole thing is starting to feel like a larp.

- Doc

Since about page 8. A larping derailer.

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

...your...god is pro-slavery.

No He’s not.

Been reading what you will/want into the Old Testament, huh? You aren’t the first and won’t be the last.

You really have it in for believers, don’t you?

Is civility to much to ask of a person who makes up their own ethics and spins their own moral compass?

Your put downs don’t make you a man.

God is good. How could he be anything else? Use some common sense.

Regards,
MG

You’re a felt-brained muppet who is literally an idiot refusing to acknowledge what is plainly said to him by his own scriptures. No wonder you keep forking money over to a $123,000,000,000 real estate investment firm masquerading as a revenue collection center promising to literally sell salvation for money.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

Do you have any clue as to how silly you sound?

Well yes, I sound as silly as you do when you assume that open-mindedness towards your beliefs is the only rational option for any and every person. That was the point.

I was born and raised LDS, MG, I graduated seminary, I served a mission, graduated BYU, paid tithing; for the most part was a dyed-in-the-wool believer for the first half of my life. Over a few years, I came to the painful conclusions that the Church isn't true and I also came to believe there is no God.

Sure, I could have come to the wrong conclusion, but if you think after all of that effort, that I'm simply guilty of black-and-white thinking, and I automatically don't give God a chance, then your criteria for remaining open-minded is extraordinarily high. I'll make you a deal: If you move to Syria for just one year, and use that time to get to know at least 10 ISIS members, and take the time to learn about ISIS from the source, and really "plant the seed" as the Book of Mormon says we must do, and see if it will sprout and begin to grow, and after that you decide it isn't for you, then I'll let your one year count the same as my 20+ years, and we can both say of each other that we're pretty open minded, fair thinkers. But until then, I'm sorry, but I win: between the two of us, you are the binary thinker.

You might not understand, MG, that "give it a chance" works both ways: it's not just others who always have to give your beliefs a chance when they seem wrong to them, but you must give their beliefs a chance when their beliefs seem wrong to you. You are willing to only give other beliefs a chance when they don't fundamentally contradict yours. You set a double standard, as obviously people who don't give your beliefs a chance are just doing the same thing -- a bridge too far.

In other words, your heuristic of looking for dogmatism in others is one-sided, and of zero value.

[mentalgymnast]

Do you have any clue as to how silly you sound?

Well yes, I sound as silly as you do when you assume that open-mindedness towards your beliefs is the only rational option for any and every person. That was the point.

I was born and raised LDS, MG, I graduated seminary, I served a mission, graduated BYU, paid tithing; for the most part was a dyed-in-the-wool believer for the first half of my life. Over a few years, I came to the painful conclusions that the Church isn't true and I also came to believe there is no God.

Sure, I could have come to the wrong conclusion, but if you think after all of that effort, that I'm simply guilty of black-and-white thinking, and I automatically don't give God a chance, then your criteria for remaining open-minded is extraordinarily high. I'll make you a deal: If you move to Syria for just one year, and use that time to get to know at least 10 ISIS members, and take the time to learn about ISIS from the source, and really "plant the seed" as the Book of Mormon says we must do, and see if it will sprout and begin to grow, and after that you decide it isn't for you, then I'll let your one year count the same as my 20+ years, and we can both say of each other that we're pretty open minded, fair thinkers. But until then, I'm sorry, but I win: between the two of us, you are the binary thinker.

You might not understand, MG, that "give it a chance" works both ways: it's not just others who always have to give your beliefs a chance when they seem wrong to them, but you must give their beliefs a chance when their beliefs seem wrong to you. You are willing to only give other beliefs a chance when they don't fundamentally contradict yours. You set a double standard, as obviously people who don't give your beliefs a chance are just doing the same thing -- a bridge too far.

In other words, your heuristic of looking for dogmatism in others is one-sided, and of zero value.

I don’t need to travel to Syria. I can walk to the daily newspaper that came just today.

https://www.heraldextra.com/world-brief ... 4064d.html
Iraq kills ISIS commander after suicide blasts-
BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraqi security forces have killed a senior commander of the Islamic State group, the prime minister said on Thursday, a week after the rare, twin suicide bombing by IS militants killed dozens in Baghdad.

The Islamic State group had quickly claimed responsibility for the Jan. 21 blasts at a busy open-air market in the Iraqi capital. At least 32 people were killed and more than 100 were wounded.

Prime Minister Mustafa al-Kadhimi tweeted on Thursday that an “intelligence-led” operation in northern Iraq killed 39-year-old Abu Yasar al-Issawi, deputy commander and IS chief in Iraq.

The country’s security forces have faced mounting pressure after the Jan. 21 attack in central Baghdad, with many saying the attack — the first to strike the Iraqi capital by the militant group in three years — was a failure of Iraq’s intelligence.

“I gave my word to pursue the Daesh terrorists, we gave them a thundering response,” al-Kadhimi said, referring to IS by its Arabic acronym.

Al-Issawi, born Jabbar al-Issawi, was killed in an operation west of the city of Kirkuk where IS militants are known to still have a presence. The operation was lead by Iraq’s elite Counter-Terrorism Service, in cooperation with Iraqi intelligence. Iraqi forces clashed with IS militants and al-Issawi was killed in the firefight, the counter-terrorism agency said on its Facebook page.

The Baghdad attack also came as the U.S.-led coalition forges ahead with plans to withdraw troops from the country. U.S. troops have gradually withdrawn from bases across Iraq to consolidate in Baghdad and the Ain al-Asad airbase in Anbar.

However, Iraq remains heavily reliant on U.S. weaponry and surveillance technology and expertise to root out IS presence across the country’s north and the vast western desert.

ISIS is evil. Their fruits are evil. The CofJCof LDS isn’t evil. Their fruits are good. That’s not black and white thinking. The fruits demonstrate that this is so. The Sorites Paradox I’ve referred to earlier in this thread recognizes that black and white thinking is part of our evolutionary DNA but also recognizes that it is limited in scope as to what it can explain ‘on the ground’ as we look at things with a subjective bias. We all fall prey to...at least at first in many situations...to drawing lines and borders between what we are willing to believe/accept and what we don’t feel inclined to do so.

When it comes to things ‘Mormon’ I see too many folks who, in my opinion, draw the line WAY too early as they travel the path of exploration and faith within the LDS faith tradition. I’ve seen instances on the previous version of this board where a ‘smoking gun’ of one sort or another was the thing that was going to lead to the demise of the church or send members away in droves. The one grain of sand that would make the difference in the sustainability of the church into the future. The one thing that would turn the church into a heap of ashes, or something less than what it is and will continue to be.

Comparing ISIS to the LDS church, its message and its fruits, is on its face a false equivalency. The distance one has to travel on the line that separates them to get from one to the other negates anything having to do with black and white thinking. Distance matters.

I’m happy that you have found your ‘sweet spot’ in your own search for truth. I would just hope that you don’t begrudge those of us within faith traditions that believe in a greater good and creative power outside of ourselves that manages and maintains the workings of this world and the universe as we know it.

One thing for sure. The Sorites Paradox I referred to earlier doesn’t apply to a creator God and whether one exists or not. God either exists or he doesn’t. Although it is interesting to consider that it does apply in the sense that within LDS theology there is an application which I’m sure you can readily observe.

Regards,
MG

[mentalgymnast]

*duplicate

[Lem]

Many of these problems could be alleviated if people had faith in a creator God who has given commandments which if obeyed would help solve a good portion of the world’s ills. Rather than move away from God I think it would be a darn good idea if we were a bit more “deadly earnest” about trying to know and obey Him. But you’re right, there are a lot of people fumbling in a slew of nonsense which results in real problems.

Regards,
MG

Of course. If only everybody did what you say your particular deity (one amongst many) wants them to do, everything would be fine.

But I'm sorry sir, you have to take a numbered ticket and wait your turn to be called. We have such a lot of advocates for different deities in today, so we have to operate a strict queuing system. Of course, as you notice there is a special VID (Very Important Deity) line over there, reserved for deities who turn up in person rather than sending a representative (or, in most cases, several representatives who keep shouting over one another and sometimes starting fist fights), but so far none of them has actually turned up. So we are doing the best we can, and ask you to bear with us.

Next, please ....

[mentalgymnast]

*duplicate

[mentalgymnast]

Of course. If only everybody did what you say your particular deity (one amongst many) wants them to do, everything would be fine.

But I'm sorry sir, you have to take a numbered ticket and wait your turn to be called. We have such a lot of advocates for different deities in today, so we have to operate a strict queuing system. Of course, as you notice there is a special VID (Very Important Deity) line over there, reserved for deities who turn up in person rather than sending a representative (or, in most cases, several representatives who keep shouting over one another and sometimes starting fist fights), but so far none of them has actually turned up. So we are doing the best we can, and ask you to bear with us.

Next, please ....

You jest. Chap’s post is rather humorous on its surface. But the truth is, one would expect that over time one would expect many religions (10,000 or so?) and gods when you consider all of the factors involved. I’m sure I don’t need to list those for a person as intelligent as yourself. Although the fact that you merely responded to his post with an emoji makes me wonder.

Regards,
MG

[mentalgymnast]

Well yes, I sound as silly as you do when you assume that open-mindedness towards your beliefs is the only rational option for any and every person. That was the point.

I was born and raised LDS, MG, I graduated seminary, I served a mission, graduated BYU, paid tithing; for the most part was a dyed-in-the-wool believer for the first half of my life. Over a few years, I came to the painful conclusions that the Church isn't true and I also came to believe there is no God.

Sure, I could have come to the wrong conclusion, but if you think after all of that effort, that I'm simply guilty of black-and-white thinking, and I automatically don't give God a chance, then your criteria for remaining open-minded is extraordinarily high. I'll make you a deal: If you move to Syria for just one year, and use that time to get to know at least 10 ISIS members, and take the time to learn about ISIS from the source, and really "plant the seed" as the Book of Mormon says we must do, and see if it will sprout and begin to grow, and after that you decide it isn't for you, then I'll let your one year count the same as my 20+ years, and we can both say of each other that we're pretty open minded, fair thinkers. But until then, I'm sorry, but I win: between the two of us, you are the binary thinker.

You might not understand, MG, that "give it a chance" works both ways: it's not just others who always have to give your beliefs a chance when they seem wrong to them, but you must give their beliefs a chance when their beliefs seem wrong to you. You are willing to only give other beliefs a chance when they don't fundamentally contradict yours. You set a double standard, as obviously people who don't give your beliefs a chance are just doing the same thing -- a bridge too far.

In other words, your heuristic of looking for dogmatism in others is one-sided, and of zero value.

I don’t need to travel to Syria. I can walk to the daily newspaper that came just today.

https://www.heraldextra.com/world-brief ... 4064d.html
Iraq kills ISIS commander after suicide blasts-
BAGHDAD (AP) — Iraqi security forces have killed a senior commander of the Islamic State group, the prime minister said on Thursday, a week after the rare, twin suicide bombing by IS militants killed dozens in Baghdad.

The Islamic State group had quickly claimed responsibility for the Jan. 21 blasts at a busy open-air market in the Iraqi capital. At least 32 people were killed and more than 100 were wounded.

Prime Minister Mustafa al-Kadhimi tweeted on Thursday that an “intelligence-led” operation in northern Iraq killed 39-year-old Abu Yasar al-Issawi, deputy commander and IS chief in Iraq.

The country’s security forces have faced mounting pressure after the Jan. 21 attack in central Baghdad, with many saying the attack — the first to strike the Iraqi capital by the militant group in three years — was a failure of Iraq’s intelligence.

“I gave my word to pursue the Daesh terrorists, we gave them a thundering response,” al-Kadhimi said, referring to IS by its Arabic acronym.

Al-Issawi, born Jabbar al-Issawi, was killed in an operation west of the city of Kirkuk where IS militants are known to still have a presence. The operation was lead by Iraq’s elite Counter-Terrorism Service, in cooperation with Iraqi intelligence. Iraqi forces clashed with IS militants and al-Issawi was killed in the firefight, the counter-terrorism agency said on its Facebook page.

The Baghdad attack also came as the U.S.-led coalition forges ahead with plans to withdraw troops from the country. U.S. troops have gradually withdrawn from bases across Iraq to consolidate in Baghdad and the Ain al-Asad airbase in Anbar.

However, Iraq remains heavily reliant on U.S. weaponry and surveillance technology and expertise to root out IS presence across the country’s north and the vast western desert.

ISIS is evil. Their fruits are evil. The CofJCof LDS isn’t evil. Their fruits are good. That’s not black and white thinking. The fruits demonstrate that this is so. The Sorites Paradox I’ve referred to earlier in this thread recognizes that black and white thinking is part of our evolutionary DNA but also recognizes that it is limited in scope as to what it can explain ‘on the ground’ as we look at things with a subjective bias. We all fall prey to...at least at first in many situations...to drawing lines and borders between what we are willing to believe/accept and what we don’t feel inclined to do so.

When it comes to things ‘Mormon’ I see too many folks who, in my opinion, draw the line WAY too early as they travel the path of exploration and faith within the LDS faith tradition. I’ve seen instances on the previous version of this board where a ‘smoking gun’ of one sort or another was the thing that was going to lead to the demise of the church or send members away in droves. The one grain of sand that would make the difference in the sustainability of the church into the future. The one thing that would turn the church into a heap of ashes, or something less than what it is and will continue to be.

Comparing ISIS to the LDS church, its message and its fruits, is on its face a false equivalency. The distance one has to travel on the line that separates them to get from one to the other negates anything having to do with black and white thinking. Distance matters.

I’m happy that you have found your ‘sweet spot’ in your own search for truth. I would just hope that you don’t begrudge those of us within faith traditions that believe in a greater good and creative power outside of ourselves that manages and maintains the workings of this world and the universe as we know it.

One thing for sure. The Sorites Paradox I referred to earlier doesn’t apply to a creator God and whether one exists or not. God either exists or he doesn’t. Although it is interesting to consider that it does apply in the sense that within LDS theology there is an application which I’m sure you can readily observe.

Regards,
MG

Gadianton, you said, “In other words, your heuristic of looking for dogmatism in others is one-sided, and of zero value.”

Untrue. For the reasons I’ve listed. False equivalency, when all is said and done.

Regards,
MG