Will VA be like Florida or PA?

[Gadianton]

Since I've never said or implied anybody here is QAnon, and the only misunderstanding over the matter is your own inventions or lies, then the progress is all yours. But, I agree, progress is progress so I'll take it.

[Cultellus]

Since I've never said or implied anybody here is QAnon, and the only misunderstanding over the matter is your own inventions or lies, then the progress is all yours. But, I agree, progress is progress so I'll take it.

Nobody here is QAnon!

[K Graham]

I called you woke. And I asked you to stop pretending that anyone that rejects your BS is a from QAnon.

I see. so you're telling me that I support 'defund the police' and 'taking abe Lincoln's name off buildings' and stuff like that. okay, whatever dude. Now you've offered a definition so general it could cover anybody, just to rescue yourself from a false accusation.

Please cite an example where I've accused anyone on this forum of being QAnon, or where I've indicated my right-wing friends are QAnon. I am not aware of anybody on this forum being QAnon and the only two people I know in real life who are QAnon have directly and emphatically declared their belief in Q.

That's how disingenuous hacks roll. But it impresses [personal attack deleted - cp]

[Cultellus]

I see. so you're telling me that I support 'defund the police' and 'taking abe Lincoln's name off buildings' and stuff like that. okay, whatever dude. Now you've offered a definition so general it could cover anybody, just to rescue yourself from a false accusation.

Please cite an example where I've accused anyone on this forum of being QAnon, or where I've indicated my right-wing friends are QAnon. I am not aware of anybody on this forum being QAnon and the only two people I know in real life who are QAnon have directly and emphatically declared their belief in Q.

That's how disingenuous hacks roll. But it impresses [personal attack deleted - cp]

Hi Ceeboo. Just me talking to myself again.

You probably do not want ride in a car with my sock puppet, right?

[K Graham]

I'm on board with just about everything Carville has said. Back in April he did an interview that stuck with me.

“Wokeness is a problem and we all know it”

Some key excerpts:

James Carville
Take someone like Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She’s obviously very bright. She knows how to draw a headline. In my opinion, some of her political aspirations are impractical and probably not going to happen. But that’s probably the worst thing that you can say about her.

Now take someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, the new Republican congresswoman from Georgia. She’s absolutely loonier than a tune. We all know it. And yet, for some reason, the Democrats pay a bigger political price for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez than Republicans pay for Greene. That’s the problem in a nutshell. And it’s ridiculous because Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Greene are not comparable in any way...

Tell me this: How is it we have all this talk about Jim Jordan (R-OH) and Matt Gaetz (R-Florida) and we don’t talk about Dennis Hastert, the longest-serving Republican speaker of the House in Congress? If Hastert was a Democrat who we knew had a history of molesting kids and was actually sent to prison in 2016, he’d still be on Fox News every damned night. The Republicans would never shut the hell up about it.

So when Jim Jordan was pulling all these stunts with Anthony Fauci [Fauci was speaking at a congressional hearing about ending coronavirus precautions], why didn’t someone jump in and say, “Let me tell you something, Jim, if Fauci knew what you knew, if he knew that a doctor was molesting young people, he would’ve gone to the medical board yesterday. So you can go ahead and shut the “F” up.” [Ed. note: Jordan denies knowing about the allegations of abuse when he was an assistant coach at Ohio State University.] I love that Congresswoman Maxine Waters told Jordan to “shut your mouth,” but that’s what I really wish a Democrat would say, and I wish they’d keep saying it over and over again.

Can I step back for a second and give you an example of the broader problem?

Sean Illing

Sure.

James Carville
Look at Florida. You now have Democrats saying Florida is a lost cause. Really? In 2018 in Florida, giving felons the right to vote got 64 percent. In 2020, a $15 minimum wage, which we have no chance of passing [federally], got 67 percent. Has anyone in the Democratic Party said maybe there’s nothing wrong with the state of Florida? Maybe the problem is the kind of campaigns we’re running?

If you gave me an environment in which the majority of voters wanted to expand the franchise to felons and raise the minimum wage, I should be able to win that. It’s certainly not a political environment I’m destined to lose in. But in Miami-Dade, all they talked about was defunding the police and Kamala Harris being the most liberal senator in the US Senate. And if you look all across the Rio Grande Valley, we lost all kinds of solidly blue voters. And the faculty lounge BS is a big part of it.

Sean Illing
Not to beat a dead horse, but Democrats and Republicans are dealing with very different constituencies. Democrats have a big tent, they have to win different kinds of voters and that means making different kinds of appeals. Republicans can get away with crap that Democrats cannot.

James Carville
Yeah, that’s a problem. We can only do what we can do. People always say to me, “Why don’t Democrats just lie like Republicans?” Because if they did, our voters wouldn’t stand for it. But I’m not saying we need to lie like they do. I’m saying, why not go after Gaetz and Jordan and link them to Hastert and the Republican Party over and over and over again? We have to take these small opportunities to define ourselves and the other side every damn time. And we don’t do it. We just don’t do it.

Sean Illing
Republicans aren’t just more comfortable lying, they’re more comfortable with slogans and sound bites, and that’s partly why they’re more effective at defining themselves and the Democrats.

James Carville
Let me give you my favorite example of metropolitan, overeducated arrogance. Take the climate problem. Do you realize that climate is the only major social or political movement that I can think of that refuses to use emotion? Where’s the identifiable song? Where’s the bumper sticker? Where’s the slogan? Where’s the flag? Where’s the logo?

We don’t have it because with faculty politics what you do is appeal to reason. You don’t need the sloganeering and sound bites. That’s for simple people. All you need are those timetables and temperature charts, and from that, everyone will just get it.

That’s not how the world works; that’s not how people work. And Republicans are way more disciplined about taking a thing and branding it. Elites will roll their eyes at that, but I’d ask, “How’s that working out for you?” Most people agree with us on health care and minimum wage and Roe v. Wade and even on the climate.

So why can’t we leverage that?

...

First of all, the Democratic Party can’t be more liberal than Sen. Joe Manchin. That’s the fact. We don’t have the votes. But I’ll say this, two of the most consequential political events in recent memory happened on the same day in January: the insurrection at the US Capitol and the Democrats winning those two seats in Georgia. Can’t overstate that.

But the Democrats can’t “F” it up. They have to make the Republicans own that insurrection every day. They have to pound it. They have to call bookers on cable news shows. They have to get people to write op-eds. There will be all kinds of investigations and stories dripping out for god knows how long, and the Democrats should spend every day tying all of it to the Republican Party. They can’t sit back and wait for it to happen.

Hell, just imagine if it was a bunch of nonwhite people who stormed the Capitol. Imagine how Republicans would exploit that and make every news cycle about how the Democrats are responsible for it. Every political debate would be about that. The Republicans would bludgeon the Democrats with it forever.

So whatever you think Republicans would do to us in that scenario, that’s exactly what the hell we need to do them.

The one thing that has always frustrated me with the Democratic party is their refusal to fight fire with fire and play hardball. When the attorney General was being talked down to like a toddler by that idiot Tom Cotton, if he were a Republican Trumpist he would have snapped back at him, maybe told him he was being an idiot. But instead this guy just retreated humbly as if he were begging Cotton to go easy on him. He did nothing wrong and Cotton's grievances were totally made up, but Cotton wins the messaging battle by doing this and the result is we get the internet flooded with [personal attack deleted - cp] idiots who think Garland was doing something sinister.

Why doesn't Biden go after Trump? Mock him the way Trump mocks literally everyone alive or dead who ever hurt his feelings? Part of the problem is, like Carville said, is that the Democrats have a different kind of constituency. The Republicans can afford to go scorched earth in hypocrisy and dishonesty because their constituency is gravitating towards insanity. All they care about is saying something to stick it to the libs, they don't care if its actually true.

The problem Democrats have is their voters care about what's actually true and right and they hold their elected leaders to a much higher standard. That's a problem Republicans don't have.

So Cult, is Carville wrong?

[Tinfoilhat]

I'm on board with just about everything Carville has said. Back in April he did an interview that stuck with me.

“Wokeness is a problem and we all know it”

Some key excerpts:

James Carville
Take someone like Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She’s obviously very bright. She knows how to draw a headline. In my opinion, some of her political aspirations are impractical and probably not going to happen. But that’s probably the worst thing that you can say about her.

Now take someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, the new Republican congresswoman from Georgia. She’s absolutely loonier than a tune. We all know it. And yet, for some reason, the Democrats pay a bigger political price for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez than Republicans pay for Greene. That’s the problem in a nutshell. And it’s ridiculous because Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Greene are not comparable in any way...

Tell me this: How is it we have all this talk about Jim Jordan (R-OH) and Matt Gaetz (R-Florida) and we don’t talk about Dennis Hastert, the longest-serving Republican speaker of the House in Congress? If Hastert was a Democrat who we knew had a history of molesting kids and was actually sent to prison in 2016, he’d still be on Fox News every F'ing night. The Republicans would never shut the hell up about it.

So when Jim Jordan was pulling all these stunts with Anthony Fauci [Fauci was speaking at a congressional hearing about ending coronavirus precautions], why didn’t someone jump in and say, “Let me tell you something, Jim, if Fauci knew what you knew, if he knew that a doctor was molesting young people, he would’ve gone to the medical board yesterday. So you can go ahead and shut the F up.” [Ed. note: Jordan denies knowing about the allegations of abuse when he was an assistant coach at Ohio State University.] I love that Congresswoman Maxine Waters told Jordan to “shut your mouth,” but that’s what I really wish a Democrat would say, and I wish they’d keep saying it over and over again.

Can I step back for a second and give you an example of the broader problem?

Sean Illing

Sure.

James Carville
Look at Florida. You now have Democrats saying Florida is a lost cause. Really? In 2018 in Florida, giving felons the right to vote got 64 percent. In 2020, a $15 minimum wage, which we have no chance of passing [federally], got 67 percent. Has anyone in the Democratic Party said maybe there’s nothing wrong with the state of Florida? Maybe the problem is the kind of campaigns we’re running?

If you gave me an environment in which the majority of voters wanted to expand the franchise to felons and raise the minimum wage, I should be able to win that. It’s certainly not a political environment I’m destined to lose in. But in Miami-Dade, all they talked about was defunding the police and Kamala Harris being the most liberal senator in the US Senate. And if you look all across the Rio Grande Valley, we lost all kinds of solidly blue voters. And the faculty lounge B.S. is a big part of it.

Sean Illing
Not to beat a dead horse, but Democrats and Republicans are dealing with very different constituencies. Democrats have a big tent, they have to win different kinds of voters and that means making different kinds of appeals. Republicans can get away with crap that Democrats cannot.

James Carville
Yeah, that’s a problem. We can only do what we can do. People always say to me, “Why don’t Democrats just lie like Republicans?” Because if they did, our voters wouldn’t stand for it. But I’m not saying we need to lie like they do. I’m saying, why not go after Gaetz and Jordan and link them to Hastert and the Republican Party over and over and over again? We have to take these small opportunities to define ourselves and the other side every damn time. And we don’t do it. We just don’t do it.

Sean Illing
Republicans aren’t just more comfortable lying, they’re more comfortable with slogans and sound bites, and that’s partly why they’re more effective at defining themselves and the Democrats.

James Carville
Let me give you my favorite example of metropolitan, overeducated arrogance. Take the climate problem. Do you realize that climate is the only major social or political movement that I can think of that refuses to use emotion? Where’s the identifiable song? Where’s the bumper sticker? Where’s the slogan? Where’s the flag? Where’s the logo?

We don’t have it because with faculty politics what you do is appeal to reason. You don’t need the sloganeering and sound bites. That’s for simple people. All you need are those timetables and temperature charts, and from that, everyone will just get it.

That’s not how the world works; that’s not how people work. And Republicans are way more disciplined about taking a thing and branding it. Elites will roll their eyes at that, but I’d ask, “How’s that working out for you?” Most people agree with us on health care and minimum wage and Roe v. Wade and even on the climate.

So why can’t we leverage that?

...

First of all, the Democratic Party can’t be more liberal than Sen. Joe Manchin. That’s the fact. We don’t have the votes. But I’ll say this, two of the most consequential political events in recent memory happened on the same day in January: the insurrection at the US Capitol and the Democrats winning those two seats in Georgia. Can’t overstate that.

But the Democrats can’t F it up. They have to make the Republicans own that insurrection every day. They have to pound it. They have to call bookers on cable news shows. They have to get people to write op-eds. There will be all kinds of investigations and stories dripping out for god knows how long, and the Democrats should spend every day tying all of it to the Republican Party. They can’t sit back and wait for it to happen.

Hell, just imagine if it was a bunch of nonwhite people who stormed the Capitol. Imagine how Republicans would exploit that and make every news cycle about how the Democrats are responsible for it. Every political debate would be about that. The Republicans would bludgeon the Democrats with it forever.

So whatever you think Republicans would do to us in that scenario, that’s exactly what the hell we need to do them.

The one thing that has always frustrated me with the Democratic party is their refusal to fight fire with fire and play hardball. When the attorney General was being talked down to like a toddler by that idiot Tom Cotton, if he were a Republican Trumpist he would have snapped back at him, maybe told him he was being an idiot. But instead this guy just retreated humbly as if he were begging Cotton to go easy on him. He did nothing wrong and Cotton's grievances were totally made up, but Cotton wins the messaging battle by doing this and the result is we get the internet flooded with [personal attack deleted - cp] idiots who think Garland was doing something sinister.

Why doesn't Biden go after Trump? Mock him the way Trump mocks literally everyone alive or dead who ever hurt his feelings? Part of the problem is, like Carville said, is that the Democrats have a different kind of constituency. The Republicans can afford to go scorched earth in hypocrisy and dishonesty because their constituency is gravitating towards insanity. All they care about is saying something to stick it to the libs, they don't care if its actually true.

The problem Democrats have is their voters care about what's actually true and right and they hold their elected leaders to a much higher standard. That's a problem Republicans don't have.

Cultellus, I'm starting to worry about you man! This progressive sock puppet K Graham is becoming a little to real for my liking. Please don't go over to the dark side, come back to the light!! Follow the light Cultellus or K Graham what do I call you??

[canpakes]

Since I've never said or implied anybody here is QAnon, and the only misunderstanding over the matter is your own inventions or lies, then the progress is all yours. But, I agree, progress is progress so I'll take it.

I don’t think that we have anyone here who “is QAnon”, but I’ll bet that you’d find a few folks here who buy into their voter fraud narrative. Sort of a ‘QAnon Lite’, of sorts. Give those guys time. It’s the Republican version of over-the-top wokeness that they’re warming up to.

[ceeboo]

But it impresses [personal attack deleted - cp]

Kevin - You're being very hurtful again.

Please stop embarrassing me on the board like this.

[Cultellus]

But it impresses [personal attack deleted - cp].

Kevin - You're being very hurtful again.

Please stop embarrassing me on the board like this.

PM me ceeboo. I can explain.

[Gadianton]

I don’t think that we have anyone here who “is QAnon”, but I’ll bet that you’d find a few folks here who buy into their voter fraud narrative. Sort of a ‘QAnon Lite’, of sorts. Give those guys time. It’s the Republican version of over-the-top wokeness that they’re warming up to.

I agree. There's potential Q influence on this board. I would not say, however, (aside from maybe taking an occasional cheap shot if someone is being a persistent dumbass, such as Qultellus) that someone is a QAnon friend or associate or poster, unless the person explicitly believed in Q. It's fair to say, for instance, that Ajax is Alt-right, given he explicitly posted on Stormfront in earnest. I would not say that Ajax is a follower of Q, however, even though there's going to be some crossover and shared beliefs.