Raising a child as a Mormon the right way.

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_Infymus
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Post by _Infymus »

Mercury wrote:There is no way to raise a child correctly in Mormonism. Children raised in Mormonism see the church as the real family, the child's parents are just a supporting role to them as the kids brains are cooked by mind numbingly ignorant forms of thinking.

Shades is correct. make church attendance non-mandatory. No child likes to go to church. Its antithetical to their need to have fun and enjoy life.


Merc, dangit, you keep changing your icon... And I'm in total agreement with you.
_jskains
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Post by _jskains »

MishMagnet wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.


I think I made it fairly clear. What part do I need to clarify?

JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

I disagree with those who say to make church optional. When they get older, yes, maybe. The problem is a child has no way of knowing in advance what is ultimately important in their life, and if the parents are 100% active and see how important church is to mom and dad, but mom and dad allow the kid to decide when everyone stays home or to stay home himself, then he's winning battles similar to getting out of homework, not going to school, not cleaning up his toys, or getting candy whenever he wants. I think it's an unfortunate choice to be active committed Mormons, but if that's the choice, then there has to be follow-through and guidance just like in other part of life.
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_truth dancer
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Post by _truth dancer »

I think raising children in the LDS church while teaching them they have a choice is almost impossible.

The church has a very clear and bold message... this is the one and only way, follow the prophet, obey.

Even if YOU soften the message it is broadcast loudly and clearly.

Having said this, if your family has decided to remain active members and if you want to also allow your child a chance at an opportunity to make his/her own choices...

I would offer the idea to visit a variety of churches, and places of worship. I would teach children that the world is filled with all sorts of beliefs, myths, and stories. I would help them understand that the human heart often searches for meaning, purpose and guidelines and different cultures have created different myths and rituals as a way to make sense of the world and their place in it.

I would fill their world with learning about the world, life, nature, and humankind.

I would encourage questions, doubts, investigations, and wonder.

I would listen to them and help them listen to their heart.

I would support them in their search, exploration, and journey.

I would help them understand what is healthy and what is not. What is harmful to themselves and others and what is not. What encourages respect, care, and compassion, and what does not.

I would not let the church take over the parent role. (Absolutely no interviews, for example).

I would love, love, love them to pieces!

:-)

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_MishMagnet
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Post by _MishMagnet »

jskains wrote:
MishMagnet wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.


I think I made it fairly clear. What part do I need to clarify?

JMS


Why you are going to raise your child in a church that says it's the only true church if you don't think it's the only true church. And if you do think it's the only true church why throw the option in there.
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

Yep, it's not possible. You can't teach your kid to be a critical thinker and take him to church where they discourage critical thinking. Kids are going to learn way more by what you do that what you say, and if you're attending, that will communicate that the habits and behavior of suspension of rational, critical thought and reason is the way to live.

You can't eat your cake and have it too.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Harmony wrote:When I raised my kids, I was as Molly as they come, but I still refused to allow the church to overstep their authority into raising my kids instead of me doing it. We never did the testimony thing (I've always hated it), and my "discussions" with the bishop were legendary in my ward, when I thought he'd overstepped his authority and talked inappropriately to my teenagers.


Harmony---I think we have lived parallel lives in this sense. LOL! Suffice it to say that the bishopric is scared to death of me. ;)

I'll comment more later...on my way out the door.

Good topic, Josh! :)
_jskains
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Post by _jskains »

MishMagnet wrote:
jskains wrote:
MishMagnet wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.


I think I made it fairly clear. What part do I need to clarify?

JMS


Why you are going to raise your child in a church that says it's the only true church if you don't think it's the only true church. And if you do think it's the only true church why throw the option in there.


I answered that in the very first post.

JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Dr. Shades wrote:
jskains wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:Oh, I think merely making church attendance optional will cover 99% of what you're trying to accomplish.


Kinda hard for a small child of the wife and I go to church ourselves. Can't leave a toddler at home.


Good point. I guess this brings us to another, possibly unrelated question. . . at what age is it O.K. to leave a child at home unattended?

But the mere fact that you're having this conversation most likely means you'll raise your child Mormon the right way.


I'm inclined to agree with Dr. Shades, however, I think this is a profoundly difficult question to answer. Perhaps Dartagnan has put it best---*any* attendance at an LDS Church will put pressure on your child to be a member of the LDS Church. So, I guess you are the one who really has to make the choice: What's more important to you---your relationship with your child, or your hope that the child winds up LDS?
_JAK
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Re: Raising a child as a Mormon the right way.

Post by _JAK »

jskains wrote:I know, I said I was going to only post in the Celestial forum, but I do have a question I thought I would ask the group and see if we could have a serious and mature discusion without serious confinement.

First off, I know I have been a bit of an ass. There are reasons which I could go into, but lets reset for a second, because I think from the reactions I got from you folks, that I can ask this one question I really need answered. I need both sides to chime in, but there are reasons I want people critical of the church to comment.

One of the reasons I am likely going to move on from this board is now I do have a baby coming (our first) mixed in with some big projects for my business starting next week (which is why I have time on my hands now... I am waiting for the servers to arrive).....

(Also, we get to find out what the sex is on the 27th.)

I hope you can be nice cause I want a serious answer. How can I ensure that while I would LIKE this child to be Mormon, they had a choice like I did? Would going with them to other Churches help? Books?

I don't want to SHOVE Mormonism down the kid's throat. And I refuse to do the "testemony coaching" crap parents do. My wife and I have already accepted that if the kid choses another religion, we will support them in that. We will give them our concerns, but if that is their choice, then that is that.

I hope this thread goes well, because this is an honest concern I have....

And for you that are Ex-Mormons who grew up in the Church, please think of the things you would have liked your parents to have done.

Thanks,
JMS

-------------------

jskains stated:
I hope you can be nice cause I want a serious answer. How can I ensure that while I would LIKE this child to be Mormon, they had a choice like I did? Would going with them to other Churches help? Books?

jskains,

Congratulations on your upcoming event!! My best wishes to you and your family.

Now as for your interrogatives.

jskains stated:
I hope you can be nice cause I want a serious answer. How can I ensure that while I would LIKE this child to be Mormon, they had a choice like I did? Would going with them to other Churches help? Books?


There are so many books that a comprehensive list would be most time-consuming to make.

If you want your child to be Mormon, you need to do just what the official church wants you to do. It won’t phrase it as I will, but you will understand.

You must begin indoctrination early on. You also must prevent to the extent possible the opportunity for a growing child from exposure to points of view other than those your church wants them to have.

My parents were both university professors. As a result, I was exposed to a wide variety of perspectives. When I attended college, I also took such courses as Comparative Religious Studies along with my major work in English and speech.

As a result of my rather cosmopolitan youth, I recognized early on that religion of any kind was largely about doctrine and inventions of God. If you want your child to be Mormon, you do not want to expose that child to international perspectives regarding various “churches” or other religions. Such exposure would be a significant threat to the highly biased parochial, provincial view of any narrow religious view.

If you go to “other churches” only to further indoctrinate in the Mormon preference, it’s still a risky undertaking. The last thing any religious bias wants is objective thinking and critical analysis of its positions or its emergence/evolution.

Genuine “choice” is a matter of free access to information and objective, penetrating study and thought.

I am skeptical that you want that given what I have seen of your posts here.

Clearly a child from cradle to or perhaps through high school is someone primarily under the control of parents and parenting. Even secular high schools are very soft on authentic education regarding religion. They are because they rightly fear criticism of parents of children.

At the university level NOT connected with any particular religious group is the most likely place for a child to gain exposure to the views of others and to such education as that found in comparative religion courses.

jskains stated:
I don't want to SHOVE Mormonism down the kid's throat. And I refuse to do the "testemony coaching" crap parents do. My wife and I have already accepted that if the kid choses another religion, we will support them in that. We will give them our concerns, but if that is their choice, then that is that.


The most effective indoctrination is that which takes place without a child even knowing it is going on. He grows up on a religious environment (a denomination or sect), attends a particular religious group, participates in youth work and is well indoctrinated without any understanding that he is being indoctrinated. That’s the most effective. When you refer to shoved down the kid’s throat, you refer to a view which has wide interpretation.

So long as people are indoctrinated without their knowing it’s happening, it does not appear to them (children especially) that anything is being shoved down the throat.

What is more likely if you are genuinely open to truthful responses to questions is that the child is not likely to have a strong religious connection. You cannot take a child to a single denomination for 18 years and answer all questions from the standard playbook of that religion and consider that you have given a choice to that child.

Patriotism, nationalism, religious bias are all the kind of thing which require subtle or overt mental management by controlling exposure which that child has. That you say you refuse to do “testimony coaching” is certainly a step toward rearing an independently, intellectually honest child. But it’s only one step. There are many others.

Clearly, I am not an “Ex-Mormon.” It was my good fortune to have parents out of the academic world who introduced me to the arts (many of which came out of religion in some way). We attended performances of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, went to the opera, visited the Chicago Museum of Natural History, and took in a very wide variety of cultural experiences. That kind of exposure freed me to appreciate, to think, to explore, to read in a way that would have been prohibited had I been reared in a religious mind-set of a narrow religion.

I should mention that I have read here only your opening post. I have not read any of the responses I saw numbered prior to writing this in response to your original post “raising a child as a Mormon the right way.”

(Because of this forum’s format) this will appear at the end of whatever was the last post. But it’s not offered to you, jskains, with any consideration of what others have written. After I post this, I may read some other responses.

Again my congratulations on the coming birth of your child. It is a happy occasion.

JAK
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