Who has been where I am? Questioning. Where did you end up?

[_Blixa]

Benjamin Franklin was a stone witch.

Yeah, but I'm a stone fox.

[_James Muir]

So how do I go about identifying or re-identifying the "Spirit"? I suppose the Sunday School answers are relevant here. Pray, read the Standard Works, be more obedient, and listen. Part of me is afraid to do that because I am afraid the answer will be that the church is not true, if I receive an answer at all. As long as I have not drawn concclusions, part of me says, I may still have a testimony. If I go through this process and do not obtain an answer that it is true, I have a problem . . . or do I?

In a nutshell you and all Mormons are denied access to the gift and power of the Holy Ghost by the inappropriate administration of the gospel of Jesus Christ as presently worked in the LDS Church. Joseph Smith said that there is nothing more spiritually debilitating than believing you have the true Spirit of God when in fact you do not. Even after his death he was allowed to visit Brigham Young and John Taylor in dreams, perhaps even Wilford Woodruff as well and tell them to teach the people to get the Spirit and that would lead them aright.

If Brigham had done it right he would not have had to repeat himself to John and if John Taylor had done it right he would not have had to try and reach Wilford and forget about Lorenzo Snow (for reasons that will soon be apparent) The Church has been in a wrecked spiritual condition from the beginning. The Lord rebuked the Church in the first couple of years for taking the gospel lightly. They did manage the Kirkland Temple visitations and that was the high point of LDS Sprituality. Been downhill since.

Mormons and converts do get a witness of truth when they consider the restoration and all that pertains to it. This is a very low watt warm fuzzy. They are wisked away from that to rah rah we're number one arrogance of spiritual immaturity where the Church has been stuck for well over 150 years. This is locked in upon all LDS by their sinful practise of administering the Lord's flesh and blood to those who are forbidden. Those who are forbidden are everyone. None are truly born again. None are visited of the Father and wrought upon and cleansed. None are baptised in the name of Jesus. It does not happen and nobody is trying to teach you how. Nobody knows how and worse in their ten year old mentality they think they are champions of valiance pleasing their mommies to attain their high callings and who can now say them any nay?

So with the dim bulb of what LDS believe is the gift and power of the Holy Ghost--but it is not, it was only a slight witness of the Spirit of Truth--they cannot withstand the mocking of the great and spacious pride of the world. Satan owns both camps. Of course.

Do you think Abraham was relying upon the fact that Melchizedek was a true prophet to stand against his father Terah and all the apostate abominations of his day? Was Moses leaning upon the patriarchs to see the burning bush? Were any of the saints of name ever dependant upon any other saint? Never. They each knew whereof they were idependantly born of God. Let God be true and all men liars.

How long would a good scientist trust in his theory that he knows what something is if it continues to fail his expectations? It is time LDS wimps admit they know nothing and fall upon the ground and give away all that they are to know God and consider themselves fools that the Lord might draw them unto himself at last and heal them of their many wounds and bruises.

The foundation of the kingdom of God is not any extention like the Book of Abraham or Polygamy, polyandry or what not. It is Jesus Christ making us his children in the power of his atoning sacrifice that is promised unto all men and women, all nations, kindreds and tongues which must come to pass as the Lord has said for his words cannot return unto him void. If he said it must be thus and so then it will only be thus and so worlds without end.

Come unto Christ as a little child in meekness pretending to know nothing but a desire to know and love God, let your heart break in contrite submission to that King unto whom you desire a right to cling to. Stop eating and drinking damnation to your soul. Stop entering the House of the Lord in full on blasphemy as unwashed and unannointed of God. Seek your spiritual rebirth. Your frustrations beckon you to find the Lord.

All the trite babel of conversions based upon human gumption are not of God. Everyone who chooses to follow Christ are not born of Christ by their own choosing. It is God who makes the changes. Believe this or get out of the way and cease to cumber the path that leads to everlasting life.

Then it does not matter what the evidence is proposed. You are self evident with God. You know what is around the corner so it does not matter what people pretend to prove. The entire collective of human thought does not make one hair black or white. Compared to the real gift and power of the Holy Ghost all things of this world are dead.

You think you have given Mormonism a shot but you were denied access to its depth and wealth by evil administrators who crave the honors and powers and wealth of this world. Men who assay to be God's prophets and apostles aught to be about the works of God. Those who say they are and fail to make straight the way of the Lord are liars. Does that make the truth of none effect? God forbid. Anything that is not built upon the proper foundation will be engulf by the gates of hell that enlarges its mouth to swallow the world whole.

[_James Muir]

Benjamin Franklin was a stone witch.

Yeah, but I'm a stone fox.

LOL I'm failing to believe anyone here is what they say. I came to this board after googling David Bednar and really thought for a second or two that apostles where active posters.

It is coming off to me now like a hive of Joseph Smith haters striving to lure people to joing their stampede over the edge to lamen, no lemuel, strike that,...lemming heaven.

[_James Muir]

I've come to the conclusion that if the Holy Ghost were to testify that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God, I am still justified to reject this witness based strictly on his morality alone.

If God is willing to break his own rules and give His True Messenger a pass for immorality, I would prefer to hold out a little longer For that Further Light and Knowledge He Promised to Send Me. I hold my covenants Sacred, particularly the ones concerning fidelity.

Wouldn't he at least send someone that had repented of committing the sin next to murder?

Point of logic here please. You should not reject God because a man is flawed. God is God and the REAL Holy Ghost would blow out all your gaskets if it got near enough to make a manifestation. You could not give God some credit and benefit of the doubt to perhaps consider Joseph Smith might have been misrepresented? You crave solidarity with the world over God? How are you going to be upright in heart with no spine?

[_karl61]

James Muir can you explain more on what a "low watt warm fuzzy" is and who gets them.

[_James Muir]

James Muir can you explain more on what a "low watt warm fuzzy" is and who gets them.

A low watt warm fuzzy is higher than the lump in the throat, tear in the eye, we are the Titan, the mighty mighty Titans, bonding with good buds or members in a common cause of emotional connection of spiritual patriotism.

It comes to us from out there and not in and of ourself.
It informs uplifts and inspires but changes nothing.
It counts better for testimony than Titanisms.
It is meant to wake you up to God and invite you to come unto Christ.

Those who take the low watt warm fuzzy as a born again, life changing turning point are making a mountain out of molehill and will fall because their foundation is yet sand.
The LDS gospel is presently evangelized at this level and maintained upon sand.
Because of the overbearing weight of conformity LDS members are confined here and nobody coaches them to get the gospel right and seek to bring forth and establish the cause of Zion.

LWWF is a 12 volt battery were as entering in at the gate and standing upon the rock of Christ--meaning recieving the gospel correctly,and as promised --is a plasma ejection from the sun that changes everything. No exageration intended relatively speaking.

[_mentalgymnast]

So how do I go about identifying or re-identifying the "Spirit"?

I think that a good place to start is looking at what this scripture says to you.

2 Ne. 4: 34
34 O Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever. I will not put my trust in the arm of flesh; for I know that cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of flesh. Yea, cursed is he that putteth his trust in man or maketh flesh his arm.

I had to make a conscious switch from leaning too heavily on the words of others, here online and printed media, to the exclusion of relying on and reading the scriptures. I still enjoy a good read on just about any topic, but I've come back full circle and am spending more time cracking open scriptures, including the Book of Mormon. It's made a difference. After all, if you're looking for guidance from above it can't hurt to go to the source.

Good luck again and best wishes to you,
MG

[_asbestosman]

I just want to point out here that the two statements about criticism made by Mormon leaders that I find most memorable both characterize it as something bad that should not be done. President Hinckley wrote a piece in the Ensign about criticism that seemed to equate it with the sin of pride, and then President Oaks comment that you shouldn't criticize the Brethren, even when they are wrong about something.

It sounds to me like the system must be pretty fragile if such fear of scrutiny and questions exists in its upper ranks.

Yes, we shouldn't criticize the Brethren even when they are wrong. Why? Because of who they represent. If you do not believe that they were called of and represent God, then I guess criticizing them is fair game.

As for criticising others, I'm sure President Hinckley wasn't saying that we shouldn't reprimand our children although I'm sure he was saying we should be loving about it. Even the D&C speaks to that end:

Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;

I'm pretty sure the prophet was speaking about the evils of tearing people down and hurting them. I think the issue here is one of ambiguity in language.

[_Gazelam]

A great talk on the subject of identifying the Spirit of the Lord and the Holy Ghost

http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6028

[_moksha]

One church president was a scripturally proven Son of Perdition. I can prove it.

If early Church witches wrote crap about Joseph Smith it was a smear most likely just to keep the TBMs offbalance and shy like their working the MMMassacre to defile Zion and keep it toppsy turvy from being able to assert itself righteous. These people play chess with people from craddle to grave from behind the chess board and their great pride is that they remain undetected. They act like gods who love to slink into the shadows and effect the drama and take possession of all things. They would keep the Church growing just to farm it out like they still do the Masons and Catholics and they set up America for the shelter. Benjamin Franklin was a stone witch.

The Pilgrim were sincere about Zion. They held that a person had to be spiritually accomplished to take communion. That is advanced understanding before the Book of Mormon ever revealed that commandment two hundred years later. What polluted and defeated the Pilgrim Zion? WITCHES People. Witches. Druids if you prefer. They never write anything down and strive to be invisable these days.

I think this speaks to the off the wall side in all of us. What can we do about these Witches and Druids?