Ah, isn't the LDS church wonderful?

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_Who Knows
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Re: Ah, isn't the LDS church wonderful?

Post by _Who Knows »

Tori wrote:I've talked with my ex-husband about this and he told me how humiliating it was for him. I feel terrible about that, now.


I'm actually not bothered by it (not being able to do the baptism). I see it as a great 'exmo' missionary opportunity. The only thing I'm bothered about is how my family pities me.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Inconceivable wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I suggest you go mad. Run through the streets naked throwing rocks at mailboxes and accusing trees of bestiality. After that, I doubt not baptizing your children will be a major issue.

For added fun, wear a funny hat while doing this.


Who Knows,

1) Maybe you should invite Nehor. Nehor, you wouldn't mind doing a cannonball in the font just to get things started?

Guaranteed, everyone will forget that guys like Who Knows and I are even an issue. You go, gi.. er Nehor.

2) I just tried that "read only a couple words of Wade's" thing. That really works. Thanks.

Infymus,

You got some real issues that someday you'll be better off letting go of. Until then, thanks for your contribution, I feel like your points were dead-on.


I'm afraid I don't have time. That weekend I have an appointment to have tea with God.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Infymus
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Re: Ah, isn't the LDS church wonderful?

Post by _Infymus »

Who Knows wrote:
Tori wrote:I've talked with my ex-husband about this and he told me how humiliating it was for him. I feel terrible about that, now.


I'm actually not bothered by it (not being able to do the baptism). I see it as a great 'exmo' missionary opportunity. The only thing I'm bothered about is how my family pities me.


Try as hard as you can to step above it. Realize that their so-called "Pity" is how they rationalize your leaving their Cult. Take a humanistic approach to it and show a positive side. The thing that Mormons hate so badly about Ex-Mormons is when Ex-Mormons don't act the way Mormons "Think" they should. You now know the truth, you are now in the real world while they continue to believe the whole Joseph Smith fantasy. You are far better off in the long run and your life will only become fuller as you are allowed to actually LIVE. They will pot shot you left and right because they have to justify in their own minds the incomprehensible reasons you left.

I mean crap, look at Charity here. The whole Cult could tumble to the ground with proof that it was all made up - and yet she would stand and testify that Joseph was indeed a prophet of the lard. Even if they could drag him out of the grave and have him testify he made the whole thing up - she would find a way to continue believing. There is no convincing them of anything and in doing so will only alienate you further. Look at the Mormons who post here. Look at how they use everything at their disposal to continue believing regardless of the evidence provided. Quite frankly, I'm tired of wasting my time even responding to them anymore.

So let the baptism happen if it makes peace among the Cult members - many of whom are still your family. Chart your own course and plant the seeds in your son of the truth behind the Cult of Mormonism. He will eventually wise up and when the time comes, begin to make his own decisions.

It has taken years upon years before I could finally begin to even convince my wife that Joseph Smith had more than 1 wife. She grew up in the Cult where everything real about the history of the Cult was hidden from her. She would not believe that Joseph practiced polygamy in secret - hiding it even from Emma, all the while having sex with teenage girls. Year after year I showed her the evidences and finally she began to see. It will take a lot more time but hopefully the shackles of the Cult of Mormonism will begin to fall off of her and she will stand up for herself and see it for what it was.

Stand up for yourself and set your ground rules about Mormonism. Mormons have no comprehension when it comes to boundaries and will constantly break them whenever they can "In The Name Of The Lord". This is exactly why they got into so much trouble in Missouri and Illinois - they thought they were above the law doing the lards work. Learn to say no. Learn to set boundaries with them and at times you have to be forceful because they cannot comprehend you. They have been brought up to be servants who will turn over any intimate detail of their lives upon questioning from so-called Priesthood leaders. They will always think if they could just pray enough, pay enough, cry enough, push enough - you will come to your senses and come back to the Cult.

Best of luck.
_skippy the dead
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Post by _skippy the dead »

The Nehor wrote:I'm afraid I don't have time. That weekend I have an appointment to have tea with God.


Okay - I know you're making this up. God wouldn't have tea, or they'd yank his temple recommend. Maybe you have an appointment to have Bosco with God?
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
_Bond...James Bond
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Post by _Bond...James Bond »

Hi Who Knows,

Sorry your going through the family-religious wringer. I thought your wife was becoming more liberal about your belief.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
_wenglund
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Re: Ah, isn't the LDS church wonderful?

Post by _wenglund »

Tori wrote:
wenglund wrote:
Who Knows wrote:
wenglund wrote:I hear your dramatic appeal...


Same old wade. I ignored everything after those first 5 words. Sorry, try again if you'd like.


I appreciate the second chance--particularly since I believe you well worth it.

Perhaps if I use some of your own words, you may be less inclined to ignore what comes thereafter. So let me phrase it this way: Given the wonderful way you described your pending situation, what plans are you making to improve things for yourself and others over the next few weeks?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-


I'm kinda puzzled what you mean here, Wade. Just what would you propose he do?


I am not sure what is puzzling about my straightforward query. For one, I am not proposing anything for him. Rather, I am asking him what he plans to do for himself.

For another, were I in a similar situation as him (which, in a way, I was at a certain point in my life), there are a variety of of things that I may consider doing myself to improve the situation for myself and others--not the least of which was attemting to focus everyone's (particularly my own) positive attention on the child being baptised and the baptism itself (which is where I believe the focus should be anyway), rather than negatively on my not being able to perform the baptism. It is also amazing what a kindly, and genuine smile can do on such occasions. There are other things that I might consider doing myself (and had considered doing when in the similar situation), and other things that I have since thought to do, but hopefully this should suffice.

This is one of the things that is so irritating about the Church. The way a father is ostracized because he is deemed 'unworthy'.

I was married for 22 years to someone that was also 'unworthy'. He didn't bless, baptize, or confirm any of my children. I had family members or a Bishop do the deed and at that time I saw nothing wrong with that. I had no idea how it affected my husband and how he felt.

I remember when my daughter was born, it was shortly before my father died. We had the whole family together so we blessed her at the family dinner after the funeral. I asked my Bishop if we could do that and told him that my Brother-in-law would do the blessing and he was a 1st counselor in a BR so it should be OK. My other daughter was blessed at Church on Fast Sunday and my husband was able to stand in the circle and hold her as her father. I just assumed he would be able to do the same thing this time around. Somewhere in the 6 years between the two...the rules changed. He couldn't be any where near the circle. The counselor from my Bishpric had my husband stand outside the Circle, while the worthy relatives stood in it and gave my daughter a blessing.

I can't believe that I thought that was OK! I've talked with my ex-husband about this and he told me how humiliating it was for him. I feel terrible about that, now.

The thing is, I didn't see it then. I thought I was doing the right and proper thing because my kids just had to be blessed the Mormon way. Active LDS automatically think that the father just needs to get worthy. Ridiculous.


I agree that a father not being able to perform priesthood ordinance for his children, for whatever reason (including lack of worthiness--which was the case for me), should not result in ostricizing (whether real or perceived) by either party. Unfortunately, such things tend to occur where there is an inclination on the part of either or both sides to be judgemental, blaming, critical, and self-interested, rather than loving, uplifting, understanding, and "other" focused. If both parties would do the later, I think the chances are greatly increased that conditions would be improved for all parites concerned--I know it worked for me.

But, that may be just the way I see it.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

skippy the dead wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I'm afraid I don't have time. That weekend I have an appointment to have tea with God.


Okay - I know you're making this up. God wouldn't have tea, or they'd yank his temple recommend. Maybe you have an appointment to have Bosco with God?


God is British, I was referring to dinner. ;)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_skippy the dead
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Post by _skippy the dead »

The Nehor wrote:
skippy the dead wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I'm afraid I don't have time. That weekend I have an appointment to have tea with God.


Okay - I know you're making this up. God wouldn't have tea, or they'd yank his temple recommend. Maybe you have an appointment to have Bosco with God?


God is British, I was referring to dinner. ;)


Oh, High Tea. Well, that makes sense, then. I hear he does like Bosco, though. Make sure you bring some.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

skippy the dead wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
skippy the dead wrote:
The Nehor wrote:I'm afraid I don't have time. That weekend I have an appointment to have tea with God.


Okay - I know you're making this up. God wouldn't have tea, or they'd yank his temple recommend. Maybe you have an appointment to have Bosco with God?


God is British, I was referring to dinner. ;)


Oh, High Tea. Well, that makes sense, then. I hear he does like Bosco, though. Make sure you bring some.


I'll consider it but I have a longstanding gripe with that name. That freakish little cartoon character would always show up in the middle of Looney Toons when I wanted some Roadrunner or Bugs.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_moksha
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Re: Ah, isn't the LDS church wonderful?

Post by _moksha »

Tori wrote:The counselor from my Bishpric had my husband stand outside the Circle, while the worthy relatives stood in it and gave my daughter a blessing.

I can't believe that I thought that was OK! I've talked with my ex-husband about this and he told me how humiliating it was for him. I feel terrible about that, now.

The thing is, I didn't see it then. I thought I was doing the right and proper thing because my kids just had to be blessed the Mormon way. Active LDS automatically think that the father just needs to get worthy. Ridiculous.


When I hear of these policies of exclusion, I wonder if there is a failure empathy involved? The policy formulators were perhaps not able to understand any anguish that such an exclusion might be cause.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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