Black men and the Pre-Existence

[_Ren]

I don't remember it being mentioned 'that' much, but it was certainly mentioned. And I believed it.
It seemed a decent justification to me -at the time. It felt better than just saying 'just cos', and it didn't exactly feel natural to 'really' judge anybody for what they did before they were born...! (In any solid sense...)

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I think Bruce R. McConkie said that all those prophets and apostles who speculated on "the negro" spoke with a limited light and knowledge and we should just disregard what they said. Of course every non-mormon and exmormon already knows that they speak with a limited light and knowledge, and we always disregard what they say.

[_Jason Bourne]

Liz,

It really doesn't matter whether either you or any TBM believes it or not. Brigham Young said it. According to history, it was the mind and will of the Lord.

Could you clarify the comment "According to history, it was the mind and will of the Lord."

[_the road to hana]

Yes, we were taught this from childhood. I remember hearing it again in Seminary. I remember hearing it again at BYU.

Of course we were told that lots of people were less valiant in the pre-existence, accounting for their various difficulties. We were also taught that those of us who were LDS were, of course, more valiant.

[_Jason Bourne]

Before the lifting of the ban in 1978 I recall comments about pre-existence issues and being born black. Black's were considered to have been less valient and fence sitters. However, I understood these to be more speculative than solid doctrine. On the other hand I have since seen a FP statement that essentially sayd this and this seems fairly official.

[_Who Knows]

Of course we were taught this.

I was also taught that those who were born into good Mormon families were the most valiant in the preexistence. I was also taught that people born with disabilities were not so valiant in the pre-existance. It was like a sliding scale. The less valiant you were, the worse your life sucked here on earth. But you were willing to accept a sucky life, just for the opportunity to gain a body.

[_truth dancer]

Absolutely I was taught this... as truth revealed to God's prophet. I still have a few books written by LDS authors explaining the teaching/doctrine.

I was raised in a family that did not hold to racists ideas hence could not ever believe such a thing.

I was taught that the reason I could not embrace this teaching was because I was too hard hearted, or not humble enough to have God confirm the truth of it. You know... "God's ways are not man's ways." And, "The truth will be confirmed AFTER the trial of your faith," etc. etc. etc.

It caused much distress for me during my believing days when this teaching was considered doctrine/truth.

Funny how prophets think they are inspired....


~dancer~

[_RAJ]

So do faithful members still believe some version of this? That is, your particular circumstance / disability / challenge, etc... is correlated in some way to your behavior in "the pre-existence."

[_truth dancer]

Hi RAJ,

So do faithful members still believe some version of this? That is, your particular circumstance / disability / challenge, etc... is correlated in some way to your behavior in "the pre-existence."

I have never heard any prophet or leader of the church suggest that the above teaching was/is erroneous.

Leaders may say "it is in the past", or we do not have to abide by those teachings, or God has seen fit to release the ban, etc. etc. but I have yet to hear even one leader suggest it was not truth.

My observation is that most apologists will support the teaching, and dismiss it as something in the past but few would suggest the prophets got it wrong.

~dancer~

[_Dr. Shades]

Black men were not valiant in the pre-existence..

First of all, this was something I had never heard of until many years later when I read Brigham Young's comments concerning this in the Journal of Discourses.

I personally do not know of any members who believe this, and I have some very prominent members of the Church in my family.

I find both of those propositions extremely hard to believe. Of course we were all taught those things, repeatedly. It was always given as the reason blacks were denied the priesthood whenever anyone asked about it.

Why did you think that blacks were denied the priesthood?