Split from Harmony's Thread, Who Needs To Know?

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_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Moniker wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:With all due respect, I think you're describing the active, hardcore-LDS gentlemen, not any of the males on this board.

What does any of that have to do with us here?


Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa

*snort*


Uh, thanks for that, but it still doesn't answer my question.


Do you really want me to answer your question?
_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Moniker wrote:Do you really want me to answer your question?


Now I'm scared. How about answering it over PM? :-)
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Sam Harris
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Post by _Sam Harris »

Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)


No they can't tell. They apparently can't tell what a good woman is, either.

Going by some of the assumptions on here, I'm supposed to be biting myself and abusing kids...
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)


ASSUMING, of course, that they haven't told their husbands. Maybe we should figure out whether the experience in life is different. :)
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_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

asbestosman wrote:
Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)


ASSUMING, of course, that they haven't told their husbands.


You smart ass! ;P
_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

Sam Harris wrote:Going by some of the assumptions on here, I'm supposed to be biting myself and abusing kids...

My understanding is this: just as there is a higher incidence of respitory problems in smoggy cities yet not everyone (not even most) has them, there is also a higher incidence of abuse among the abused, but not everyone succombs. Therefore out-of-hand dismissals for a person's environment or past will be your loss in that you will overloook some wonderful people.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Sam Harris wrote:But I know my worth now, no thanks to attitudes like that above. I found spiritually strong people to teach me, not people who thought about how my kids were going to be damaged (my kids will have one hell of a mother thank you, because ever since I was a kid I've vowed to give them what I did not have!). Goodness...


YOU SEE? YOU are an example of a survivor who has successfully dealt with her past and is therefore A-O.K. in the marriage department.

Now, let's contrast that with a survivor who has NOT successfully dealt with her past. Let's say she breaks down crying at random times for no reason. Let's say she's running up huge bills for frequent trips to the psychologist. Let's say she has a deep-seated revulsion to intimacy. THAT would be an example of someone who ought to disclose her issues to her potential husband, since such things will have a practical impact on his life as well.

BOTH are examples of survivors. NEITHER of them are "damaged goods." NEITHER of them are any less virtuous than anyone else. NEITHER of them are any less worthy of God's love (assuming God exists).

The only problem is when a man mistakenly assumes that abuse in one's past equals the latter, and cannot equal the former. IT'S NOT THAT SHE IS "DAMAGED GOODS," it's just that he is ignorant of just what the consequences of abuse are, or that (as Moniker implied) abuse survivors can, and do, overcome the past.

Going by some of the assumptions on here, I'm supposed to be biting myself and abusing kids...


I REALLY DOUBT THAT THOSE ASSUMPTIONS EXIST IN THIS THREAD. When various males here have asserted their right to "pass" on someone with abuse issues, they're merely asserting their right to "pass" on survivors in the latter category--the unhealed one. They're not castigating survivors in the former category--the healed one--such as yourself.

Am I making any sense?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Scottie
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Post by _Scottie »

Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)

I see. So you are of the belief that abused LDS women who are married are only married because they kept their abuse a secret? Interesting theory.

Do you think there is any plausibility to my scenario where a girl is dumped, but no real reason is given (which happens often), and she automatically assumes it is because of her abuse? Even though it was simply because the guy hooked up with the hot sister in his new singles ward (or whatever the case may be)? Can you honestly tell me that a guy would be stupid enough tell a girl why he is breaking up with her, regardless of the reason?? No, it most likely will turn into the "it's not you, it's me" or "this just isn't working out" talk.

Unfortunately, just like the licked cupcake lesson, girls are conditioned to feel worthless much more than men are conditioned to look for a virgin wife. It is my belief that women self-judge themselves MUCH more harshly than men. So when a breakup occurs without a good reason, the girl, who is already self conscious about being "damaged goods", will automatically go there for the reason. She tells all of her friends that this is why. The friends then gossip. It because an epidemic in the church with no real foundation.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman

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_Moniker
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Post by _Moniker »

Scottie wrote:
Moniker wrote:
Scottie wrote:Mon, you ignored my previous post.

If this mindset is so rampant in the church, and 1 in 4 women were abused, shouldn't there be a plethora of single, abused women out there?


No, that is my point! The guys do NOT know about it! They can NOT tell! :)

I see. So you are of the belief that abused LDS women who are married are only married because they kept their abuse a secret? Interesting theory.


That's not my theory. I shouldn't have written that. The stats show that 1 out of 4 women have been sexually abused. Utah actually has a much higher rape occurrence than the national average. I think in the LDS culture it may very well be that many women don't talk about it. Look back to what is occurring with Harmony's daughter. Harmony herself didn't tell her husband for years and years. Did her husband know? No? Is she scarred? She says she has personality traits and hang ups... yet, her husband didn't have a clue apparently!

Do you think there is any plausibility to my scenario where a girl is dumped, but no real reason is given (which happens often), and she automatically assumes it is because of her abuse? Even though it was simply because the guy hooked up with the hot sister in his new singles ward (or whatever the case may be)? Can you honestly tell me that a guy would be stupid enough tell a girl why he is breaking up with her, regardless of the reason?? No, it most likely will turn into the "it's not you, it's me" or "this just isn't working out" talk.

Unfortunately, just like the licked cupcake lesson, girls are conditioned to feel worthless much more than men are conditioned to look for a virgin wife. It is my belief that women self-judge themselves MUCH more harshly than men. So when a breakup occurs without a good reason, the girl, who is already self conscious about being "damaged goods", will automatically go there for the reason. She tells all of her friends that this is why. The friends then gossip. It because an epidemic in the church with no real foundation.


I think there are ALLL sorts of possibilities. I don't know particulars. I DO know that women in the LDS culture are taught to feel shamed about consensual sex and told that they should fight to the death rather than lose their chastity. They are taught that men don't want "licked cupcakes" or "used meat" -- this is FACT! If the Church didn't teach women that they are NO MORE than their sexual chastity to their potential future husbands maybe the women wouldn't jump to conclusions (if they ARE doing so). Also the men are told to stay clear of converts -- I had a thread asking about this and this DID occur.

Urgh. I'm tired of this topic....
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