rc said the following with regard to both the communist and homosexual flaps at BYU:
Quote:
I am intimately familiar with this, having a grandfather involved and several professors I have personally interviewed. The "Church" was involved only to the extent it squelched it once it figured out what was going on. My grandfather was the designated squelcher. You're just wrong.
No; not to "both." Bob later tried to score a point over the use of the term "spy ring." He insisted quite strenuously that it referred only to the anti-liberal "purge."
No,
not to both my mendacious friend. I said "both" and then posted three paragraphs of text in which rc deals with both the homosexual and communist spy ring question. That you could not parse this intelligently is your own problem, not mine. The first paragraph has to do with, obviously, only one of those situations.
rc:
As to the BYU spying case, it is fairly well discussed elsewhere. I particularly found Gregory Prince's work on David O McKay a compelling read on the subject, naming names. The spy ring was instigated by students. Pres. Wilkinson (who denies commissioning it in his edited multivolume history of BYU) with a wink and a nod apparently listened to its results. When Wilkinson pressured the seven profs to resign, they appealed to my grandfather who took the matter to the Board of Trustees, which then understood what was going on and offered to reinstate the profs. Not all accepted the offer. One, accused by the students of being disloyal to the Church, not attending meetings and being a communist, went on to be a Reagan kitchen cabinet member and then a General Authority.
Quote:
According to the affected professors I've interviewed, at least three of whom are still angry over the incident, they see it as students doing the spying on professors and Wilkinson taking unfair advantage of it. That isn't the Church, and the Church righted that ship. As far as entrapment of homosexuals, BYU Security in the 1970s (as well as today) are commissioned peace officers in Utah. They are as legitimate a police force as the Provo P.D. At the same time this was going on, the Utah County Sheriff's Department was arresting homosexuals with undercover agents at rest stops on the freeway, a practice that continues in almost all states. When Oaks learned what was going on, he put a stop to it.
Coggins:
If I overstated your case, sorry. What I see here is that you say "the Church righted the ship" regarding the BYU "spy ring" and that BYU security, in moving open homosexuals out of the campus, were doing nothing peculiar for the times. In both cases, the Church itself seems to have had nothing to do directly with either case. There is, of course, no evidence of any such things occurring today.
Scratch still stands exposed as an intellectual hack here, as seems his wont in most cases.
Forrest Scratch:
It is a huge leap to claim that "the Church" had nothing to do with the spying. In fact, after these various incidents, the Church's surveillance and spying activities were consolidated in the SCMC. The Church is, and has long been, interested in spying on dissidents.
When you can come up with a single, bare shred of evidence to this end, let us all know. Until then, I'm going to send you a year's supply of tin foil, as I'm sure you'll be needing it in ever increasing quantities as time moves forward.