Val Southwick: Why Utah leads the country in fraud schemes?

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_John Larsen
_Emeritus
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Post by _John Larsen »

The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
But if the gospel is false, then Paul might have just been making that up--he had no real way to know that a false gospel would make men "most miserable". It is possible that living a delusion might very well make one happy.


But if he wasn't making it up then he would know.


Maybe. Prophets are notorious for not being able to differentiate revelation from their own random thoughts.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
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Post by _The Nehor »

John Larsen wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
But if the gospel is false, then Paul might have just been making that up--he had no real way to know that a false gospel would make men "most miserable". It is possible that living a delusion might very well make one happy.


But if he wasn't making it up then he would know.


Maybe. Prophets are notorious for not being able to differentiate revelation from their own random thoughts.


Yes but when you have the Holy Ghost to sort it out it gets a lot easier.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_John Larsen
_Emeritus
Posts: 1895
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:16 pm

Post by _John Larsen »

The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
But if the gospel is false, then Paul might have just been making that up--he had no real way to know that a false gospel would make men "most miserable". It is possible that living a delusion might very well make one happy.


But if he wasn't making it up then he would know.


Maybe. Prophets are notorious for not being able to differentiate revelation from their own random thoughts.


Yes but when you have the Holy Ghost to sort it out it gets a lot easier.


Are you suggesting that the prophets don't have the Holy Ghost?
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

John Larsen wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:
But if the gospel is false, then Paul might have just been making that up--he had no real way to know that a false gospel would make men "most miserable". It is possible that living a delusion might very well make one happy.


But if he wasn't making it up then he would know.


Maybe. Prophets are notorious for not being able to differentiate revelation from their own random thoughts.


Yes but when you have the Holy Ghost to sort it out it gets a lot easier.


Are you suggesting that the prophets don't have the Holy Ghost?


Nope
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Chap
_Emeritus
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Post by _Chap »

Is there any publicly verifiable evidence that Presidents of the CoJCoLDS have shown judgment in matters with practical consequences that is (by and large, and on the whole) better than the run of other comparable people in senior management positions?

I rather think not. The Holy Ghost does not seem to make them any better than anybody else at deciding what is or is not the case.

But perhaps someone can give me some evidence (as opposed to assertion of the cocksure one-liner kind) that my impression is false?
_John Larsen
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:16 pm

Post by _John Larsen »

Please explain how if:
1. The holy ghost can be relied upon to resolve ambiguity

However

2. The Prophets have the Holy Ghost
3. The Prophets are unable to resolve ambiguity.
4. Therefore the Holy Ghost cannot be relied upon to resolve ambiguity.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

John Larsen wrote:Please explain how if:
1. The holy ghost can be relied upon to resolve ambiguity

However

2. The Prophets have the Holy Ghost
3. The Prophets are unable to resolve ambiguity.
4. Therefore the Holy Ghost cannot be relied upon to resolve ambiguity.


The Prophets teach. Some of it comes from the Holy Ghost and some from them. Then the listener uses the Holy Ghost to tell the difference.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Canucklehead
_Emeritus
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:57 pm

Post by _Canucklehead »

Wouldn't it be better if the prophets used the HG before they just started teaching truths mixed with untruths? Why, when they have this wonderful gift that allows one to determine truth, would they not use it? They don't seem very useful, these prophets.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_John Larsen
_Emeritus
Posts: 1895
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:16 pm

Post by _John Larsen »

The Nehor wrote:
John Larsen wrote:Please explain how if:
1. The holy ghost can be relied upon to resolve ambiguity

However

2. The Prophets have the Holy Ghost
3. The Prophets are unable to resolve ambiguity.
4. Therefore the Holy Ghost cannot be relied upon to resolve ambiguity.


The Prophets teach. Some of it comes from the Holy Ghost and some from them. Then the listener uses the Holy Ghost to tell the difference.


That undercuts the whole foundation of Mormonism. If the source for truth is the Holy Ghost directly and not the prophet, why have the prophet at all? why not just use the Holy Ghost filter on the world information directly? They way you describe things, you would be better just to go to the library and have the Holy Ghost tell you what is right and wrong. The prophet serves no function whatsoever.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Canucklehead wrote:Wouldn't it be better if the prophets used the HG before they just started teaching truths mixed with untruths? Why, when they have this wonderful gift that allows one to determine truth, would they not use it? They don't seem very useful, these prophets.


Because doing so would make the listener lazy. If everything you heard was straight from God's brain to your ears we'd become the automatons so many here think we are.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
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