Missionary Journal & Depression

[_Chap]

Certain people (the majority in some cultures) use the word 'witch' non-metaphorically and with regularity, but there are in reality no people who correspond to that word in an objective sense; there are just people to whom the word gets applied for reasons which are not inherent in the persons so referred to.

The expression 'blind person' on the other hand is also frequently used non-metaphorically, and since there really are people who cannot detect visual data, we can say that there are indeed people out there to whom this expression applies objectively, and that the expression is applied to them for reasons inherent in the persons so referred to.

My impression about the use of a phrase such as 'unworthy wretch' in a religious context is that it resembles the use of 'witch' much more than it does the use of 'blind person'. Regularity and non-metaphorical use is not enough to establish objective reference.

I think a better point of reference would be the term jerk. Most of us accept and believe there are in face people who are jerks. I think wretch falls under the same category. However, there is no real objective way of measuring whether someone is a jerk though experience has shown me that often there is a big enough consensus that I feel safe applying the term.

The more you limit your speech community, the more definite you will find the consensus about who is or is not a <insert opprobrious term>. The wider your speech community becomes, the more difficult it will be to reach any consensus on the use of terms whose basis is essentially subjective.

[_The Nehor]

The more you limit your speech community, the more definite you will find the consensus about who is or is not a <insert opprobrious term>. The wider your speech community becomes, the more difficult it will be to reach any consensus on the use of terms whose basis is essentially subjective.

I would have to agree with that however I believe there is a general consensus in the wider community as to what constitutes a wretch or a jerk that most everyone agrees on. Wretch is more outdated. We'd probably be more likely to say "that poor bastard" then "that poor wretch".

[_The Nehor]

Antishock, a small correction.

In your signature you said that I said:

"Not enough electroshock therapy." is my suggestion on how to cure homosexuality. I actually said that, "Not enough electroshock therapy." is a good definition for some depressed people along with a host of other conditions causing the affliction.

Just an FYI.

[_antishock8]

Antishock, a small correction.

In your signature you said that I said:

"Not enough electroshock therapy." is my suggestion on how to cure homosexuality. I actually said that, "Not enough electroshock therapy." is a good definition for some depressed people along with a host of other conditions causing the affliction.

Just an FYI.

Are you saying that you didn't know electroshock therapy was used by Mormon institutions to "cure" homosexuality?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Bob,

let me guess. You live in Utah.

No and where I live has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with anything I posted.

It has been my experience instead that a person suffering from depression thinks he or she has very few options, and finds that a pastor is a place to start. Or it could be a bartender. Or a cop after a suicide attempt. I represent several religious entities and by no means do Mormon bishops have a lock on advising people about depression or do Mormons have a lock on depression due to religious onslaught. I also deal with psychiatrists frequently in my profession.

What does this have to do with anything at all being discussed on this thread. So, yeah, people who are depressed may go talk to someone. So. Did anyone at all suggest only Mormons get depressed? No. Glad you represent religious entities and frequently deal with psychiatrists. What does this have to do with anything we are discussing?

Depression transcends all cultures, all philosophies, all religions. A depressed non-believing college student will blame the pressures of the university and dating. A depressed high school student (and I have dealt with them in the non-religious context) will blame the rejection of peers or an inability with the opposite sex. A depressed mom will blame a sense of failure for not working, or for not being a good mom or whatever.

Again did anyone at all suggest that depression didn't transcend all cultures or religions or philosophies? What does this have to do with any comment I or anyone else made?

There have been thousands of articles and publications on the causes and cures.

And someone on this planet doesn't know this?

To suggest that Mormonism, and a bishop is to blame for depression is to really show outright ignorance of the causes and sources of the disease.

I did not in any way blame Mormonism or a bishop for depression. Please read my post. You seem to be making up stuff, or something.

The point of my post is, Bishops should not play therapist. Hope that helps.

Good luck in your quest for truth.

Thank you, I'm finding the journey quite enjoyable.

~dancer~

[_The Nehor]

Antishock, a small correction.

In your signature you said that I said:

"Not enough electroshock therapy." is my suggestion on how to cure homosexuality. I actually said that, "Not enough electroshock therapy." is a good definition for some depressed people along with a host of other conditions causing the affliction.

Just an FYI.

Are you saying that you didn't know electroshock therapy was used by Mormon institutions to "cure" homosexuality?

I've heard about it before. However, we weren't discussing homosexuality when I brought it up.

[_antishock8]

Antishock, a small correction.

In your signature you said that I said:

"Not enough electroshock therapy." is my suggestion on how to cure homosexuality. I actually said that, "Not enough electroshock therapy." is a good definition for some depressed people along with a host of other conditions causing the affliction.

Just an FYI.

Are you saying that you didn't know electroshock therapy was used by Mormon institutions to "cure" homosexuality?

I've heard about it before. However, we weren't discussing homosexuality when I brought it up.

Look. We both know what you were insinuating. You can act like you weren't, but whatever. I wouldn't expect anything more from you, anyway. Shame on you. You owe this forum an apology for advocating violence toward homosexuals.

[_The Nehor]

Antishock, a small correction.

In your signature you said that I said:

"Not enough electroshock therapy." is my suggestion on how to cure homosexuality. I actually said that, "Not enough electroshock therapy." is a good definition for some depressed people along with a host of other conditions causing the affliction.

Just an FYI.

Are you saying that you didn't know electroshock therapy was used by Mormon institutions to "cure" homosexuality?

I've heard about it before. However, we weren't discussing homosexuality when I brought it up.

Look. We both know what you were insinuating. You can act like you weren't, but whatever. I wouldn't expect anything more from you, anyway. Shame on you. You owe this forum an apology for advocating violence toward homosexuals.

Hahahahahahahaahahahha!!!! Scratch has trained you well. You read what I say with more subtlety then I use while writing it.

I'd like to point out that your insinuation in the above post that the reptilians control the Daughters of the American Revolution is probably correct.

[_mentalgymnast]

The teaching that depression is caused by sin, (or even Satan as I have heard many times), was rampant in the LDS church, official doctrine or not. (sigh)

I have often stated that there are some nice teachings in the LDS church but also some very damaging ones... the idea that depression is a sin and through repentance and prayer God will take it away is one of the most damaging of all.

How would it be if someone got cancer, and rather than seeing their doctor they went to their Bishop who told them to repent and pray and all will be well? It is ridiculous to even contemplate yet for some reason within the church there are those who think depression is a result of sin, that a Bishop is the person to go to for help, and repentance is the way to heal.

Depression is a medical illness requiring professional help, not repentance, snake oil, midnight rituals, or an animal sacrifice over the alter.

I have spoken with dozens of LDS women (a few men) over the years who have taken this "depression is the result of sin" teaching to heart, only to suffer in silence, trying to figure out what they are doing wrong, praying with all their heart, only to slide deeper into depression, feeling more and more unworthy. To all those who still believe this nonsense, guess what... prayer and repentance didn't work.

Now, as Liz pointed out I have seen a few small, little baby steps to change this mindset. I know of a couple of stakes that are addressing the issue, a few Bishops who do not counsel those with depression but suggest they receive professional help, and some members who disagree with this teaching when they hear it. So, yes I do think the teaching will diminish over time, but the leaders of the church could certainly squelch this nonsense with one talk in general conference.

Not to derail the thread but it is completely inappropriate for Bishops and other church leaders to play therapist. I don't care if the issue is abuse, marriage difficulties, or depression, they often do much more harm than good.

~dancer~

I suppose what one ought to do is go back and actually see what has been taught concerning depression through the official church magazines and other print media. Go to the official church web site. Type "depression" into the search box feature. You'll get quite a mix of articles approaching depression from all sorts of angles. Search result number one will give you ETB's point of view. Skip along to some other links in the list and you'll get a wider range of views/helps. Number six in the list is a good place to start. Five is good...so is four...ah heck, there's a bunch of good stuff! 1459 opportunities to really find out what's been said/written concerning depression.

As I've mentioned before on this list, there are those that really do take a narrow and restricted view of things and fail to widen their scope of understanding.

This is a perfect example.

Regards,
MG

[_beastie]

Just answer this question, MG. Is it or is it not common within LDS culture to associate depression with weakness, at the very least, or at the most, outright sin?