New FPR--Dead brother tells man how to send ship message

[_Sethbag]

I don't know much about Coast Guard regulations, but I have a very hard time believing that crewmen are allowed alcohol of any kind while operating a ship.

Actually, since ancient times, all the way up to only about 30 years ago or so, British sailors lined up every day at a certain time and received a ration of rum, and drank the Queen's (or King's) health.

Also, back in the 1800s, before refrigeration and shipboard desalination were possible, supplies of potable water turned nasty after just a few weeks at sea, and one of the alternatives was to drink beer, since it kept better at room temperature in a ship's hold than fresh water did. British sailors would drink a gallon of beer a day.

Look up the origins of the IPA (India Pale Ale) style - it originated with the need to provide drinkable beer to sailors on months-long voyages from Britain to India, which included a lot of time spent in very tropical conditions, where water still being fresh in the cask was simply inconceivable. They improved the preservative effect of the beer by increasing both the hops, and the alcoholic content. If you're into hoppy, bitter beers, just imagine a British sailor in the 1800s drinking a gallon of that stuff, at room termperature, per day on a long voyage. I bet by the time they got to India they would swear to God they'd never touch another drop of IPA as long as they lived. And yet, interestingly, the style persisted even after its necessity was obviated by better water storage techniques, the shortening of the route by the Suez Canal, and other things. I guess it was an aquired taste. IPA is actually probably my favorite style.

All very interesting, but I'm assuming this story happened within the last 30 years?

I didn't assume that at all. In what conflict in the past 30 years would American freighters be subject to instant destruction by "battleships" within a few hours of leaving port, if they didn't immediately respond properly to some hail over the radio?

[_guy sajer]

Even if true, how to explain God's (or Heavenly Messengers') seeming complete arbitrariness in deciding when to intervene. I mean with millions upon millions of killed, why did this particular sailor merit intervention?

Perhaps God wanted to reward him for resisting the grave sin of alcohol consumption?

Why, for that matter, didn't God protect his brother from being killed? Perhaps he needed to be dead so he could warn his brother?

Chalk it up to the mysterious ways of God, I guess.

[_asbestosman]

All very interesting, but I'm assuming this story happened within the last 30 years?

World War II was over half a century ago.

I am still waiting to hear from asbestosman whether he believes that there is any significant chance that this bizarre story might be true.

Don't hold your breath. I'm gonna see if I can contact the man who gave the talk and get a reference from him or at least get the details straight (it'll have to wait until after Monday since it's Family Home Evening).

Anyhow, why does it matter to you if I believe it? Isn't the fact that I believe the church is true ludicous enough for you? Would believing or disbelieving this story somehow change the amount of credibility I have around here because I somehow doubt it.

Even if true, how to explain God's (or Heavenly Messengers') seeming complete arbitrariness in deciding when to intervene. I mean with millions upon millions of killed, why did this particular sailor merit intervention?

To give us an Faith-Promoting Rumor which can help increase the faith of the Saints and impress upon their minds the importance of obediance? Why not for everyone? Well, then it wouldn't be faith since then the connection would be too obvious. I seem to recall President Kimball telling us that God can't immediately bless or punish us for each deed for that reason. Of course, I still wonder about the need for faith in the first place, but I don't make the rules--I'm just supposed to obey them.

[_Chap]

All very interesting, but I'm assuming this story happened within the last 30 years?

World War II was over half a century ago.

I am still waiting to hear from asbestosman whether he believes that there is any significant chance that this bizarre story might be true.

Don't hold your breath. I'm gonna see if I can contact the man who gave the talk and get a reference from him or at least get the details straight (it'll have to wait until after Monday since it's Family Home Evening).

Anyhow, why does it matter to you if I believe it? Isn't the fact that I believe the church is true ludicous enough for you? Would believing or disbelieving this story somehow change the amount of credibility I have around here because I somehow doubt it.

I suppose that since you suggested we might discuss this story, I thought it would be a good idea to ask you whether you thought it was true or not.

In my book, it makes a great difference whether we are asking:

(a) "LDS tell stories like this; what does that tell us about the way they like to think?"

or whether we are saying:

(b) "Something extraordinary happened - what can it mean?"

So which is it to be?

[_asbestosman]

In my book, it makes a great difference whether we are asking:

(a) "LDS tell stories like this; what does that tell us about the way they like to think?"

or whether we are saying:

(b) "Something extraordinary happened - what can it mean?"

So which is it to be?

Discuss either one as you please, but I would think that (a) is more fruitful in general. If I wanted to discuss (b), would I really share it with such an unreceptive audience? I already know how well Nehor's experiences are received here. I may be pretty dumb most of the time, but I'm not completely stupid (I still have a few parts missing).

[_guy sajer]

All very interesting, but I'm assuming this story happened within the last 30 years?

World War II was over half a century ago.

I am still waiting to hear from asbestosman whether he believes that there is any significant chance that this bizarre story might be true.

Don't hold your breath. I'm gonna see if I can contact the man who gave the talk and get a reference from him or at least get the details straight (it'll have to wait until after Monday since it's Family Home Evening).

Anyhow, why does it matter to you if I believe it? Isn't the fact that I believe the church is true ludicous enough for you? Would believing or disbelieving this story somehow change the amount of credibility I have around here because I somehow doubt it.

Even if true, how to explain God's (or Heavenly Messengers') seeming complete arbitrariness in deciding when to intervene. I mean with millions upon millions of killed, why did this particular sailor merit intervention?

To give us an Faith-Promoting Rumor which can help increase the faith of the Saints and impress upon their minds the importance of obediance? Why not for everyone? Well, then it wouldn't be faith since then the connection would be too obvious. I seem to recall President Kimball telling us that God can't immediately bless or punish us for each deed for that reason. Of course, I still wonder about the need for faith in the first place, but I don't make the rules--I'm just supposed to obey them.

And more Abman, I would be my bottom dollar that you will find similar FPRs among Baptists, Catholics, Lutherans, Muslims, Jews, etc. In many cases offered as evidence to the 'truthiness' of a particular set of beliefs or to suggest favored status among fellow believers. So, hypothetically, if the same story were told by an Evangelical, how do you make sense of this?

[_asbestosman]

So, hypothetically, if the same story were told by an Evangelical, how do you make sense of this?

God blesses sincere people. I offered the story as evidence of the supernatural, not as evidence that Mormonism is true over Evangelical Christianity.

[_guy sajer]

So, hypothetically, if the same story were told by an Evangelical, how do you make sense of this?

God blesses sincere people. I offered the story as evidence of the supernatural, not as evidence that Mormonism is true over Evangelical Christianity.

Ok, fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

For what it's worth, I'd require a hell of a lot more evidence of the supernatural than this Faith-Promoting Rumor, which has holes in it big enough to drive a Mac Truck through.

[_Scottie]

All very interesting, but I'm assuming this story happened within the last 30 years?

I didn't assume that at all. In what conflict in the past 30 years would American freighters be subject to instant destruction by "battleships" within a few hours of leaving port, if they didn't immediately respond properly to some hail over the radio?

Yeah, this is part of why the story stinks on ice.

How long have naval vessels had access to radio?

[_Scottie]

Is there a name for this phenomenon, which I see constantly in LDS meetings, where stories that confirm ones belief are accepted without requiring the slightest shred of evidence, but anything that goes against the belief must be accompanied by meticulous and irrefutable facts to support it, otherwise it is rejected outright?

In other words, "There is TONS of evidence coming out of South America which proves the Book of Mormon true!" is believed without question, but Joseph Smith not only married multiple women, but other men's wives requires rock solid proof before it will be believed.