The Mormon Gulag

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
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_Ray A

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Ray A »

Jersey Girl wrote:marg,

Your post was of great interest to me and I don't see it as derailing since it addresses parenting. What was of interest to me is that much of what you wrote is true for us (Jersey Girl and JB) and our children have never rebelled in the sense that you mean to address rebellion.

Except for us smoking grass as adults.

Or weed.

:-)


Marg's post was also of interest to me. I gave my children their "free agency" (agency) very early, largely because by that time I held very liberal views of Mormonism/religion. When ever I tried to influence them too much, the consequences were always disastrous.

I don't know GoodK's parents, except from the minimal amount that has been disclosed here. But in my opinion, any form of undue influence in trying to shape a young mind is like walking a tightrope. They (the children) may not realise it when they are young, but in later years they could well turn and bite the hand that fed them indoctrination.
_Jason Bourne
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jason Bourne »


The reason they haven't rebelled is they have/had nothing to rebel against, in fact my daughter complained to me about that one time. If I went into further explanation it would be a tangent to this thread. I'll keep it very short. I'm at the opposite extreme to parents who want to control their kids or go beserk over them smoking some grass, drinking at parties at a young age, staying out late etc. I did those things, and my husband has been smoking grass and drinks alcohol regularly since I started dating him a bazallion years ago. My 25 year old son still lives at home. He wants to move out and get married, but needs to finish a course he just started at the community college to be a 911 operator. His girlfriend now fiance has been sleeping over every week for a minimum of at least 2 days generally more for the last year and a half. He's been working at a beer store for minimum wage over the last 3 years since we moved back to Canada from California. I don't charge room and board, I provide a car with insurance paid for and I pay for their education. This year I'm paying for my son's course, and my daughter's who is currently in Wales working and taking a master's program. Truly there is nothing to rebel against.



Well I am not sure how you parent really and if it what you describe works for you more power to ya! But it seems to me what you describe is two adult teens parenting teens now adults. Anything goes. Party time and mom and dad pay the way hey hey!! But hey, different strokes for different folks. in my opinion even without religion I don't think what you briefly describes fits my style. You call somethings desire to control. I think what you describe is irresponsible. But I certainly could be wrong because I certainly am far from the perfect parent and there is plenty I would do differently with my older kids and things I am trying out with my youngest that I think will work better. Time will tell.

One thing we can agree on is that using some sort of boys ranch like what is described in the gulag link, assuming it is accurate, is not the way to go.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Jason
Party time and mom and dad pay the way hey hey!!


Talk to me. How is what marg described "party time"?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Jason Bourne
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Talk to me. How is what marg described "party time"?



Well I was being a little flippant but I base it on this:

I did those things, and my husband has been smoking grass and drinks alcohol regularly since I started dating him a bazallion years ago. My 25 year old son still lives at home. He wants to move out and get married, but needs to finish a course he just started at the community college to be a 911 operator. His girlfriend now fiance has been sleeping over every week for a minimum of at least 2 days generally more for the last year and a half.


As I noted different strokes for different folks but this seems a little loosey goosey for me.

But ya know I have been on my own since 21. Married at 22 two kids at 25 and paying and me and my wife paying our own way. Of course I was a stupid LDS kid that thought being married before I started sleeping with my lover meant something. We scratched our way through college while raising a family and so on. A 25 year old at home, sleeping with his woman under mom and dad's roof while mom and dad pay for college, food a car and insurance seem well, over indulging someone who it seems to me ought to be picking up some of his own way in life by now. But many parent seem to in my opinion only, over indulge their young adult kids these days. But hey like I said, that is just me. If it works for them and everyone is happy camper terrific. I may be the one with hang the hang ups. Maybe marg's way is better.
_harmony
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _harmony »

marg wrote: My 25 year old son still lives at home. He wants to move out and get married, but needs to finish a course he just started at the community college to be a 911 operator. His girlfriend now fiance has been sleeping over every week for a minimum of at least 2 days generally more for the last year and a half. He's been working at a beer store for minimum wage over the last 3 years since we moved back to Canada from California. I don't charge room and board, I provide a car with insurance paid for and I pay for their education. This year I'm paying for my son's course, and my daughter's who is currently in Wales working and taking a master's program. Truly there is nothing to rebel against.


Sounds to me like your son is still sucking at his momma's breast.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_marg

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _marg »

Jason Bourne wrote:

As I noted different strokes for different folks but this seems a little loosey goosey for me.

But ya know I have been on my own since 21. Married at 22 two kids at 25 and paying and me and my wife paying our own way. Of course I was a stupid LDS kid that thought being married before I started sleeping with my lover meant something. We scratched our way through college while raising a family and so on.


I admit is does sound loosey goosey but it works for me. If you think I've and my husband have partied all our lives you are mistaken. Just because I said he smokes grass since I've known him and we drink doesn't mean we are perpetually drunk or him stoned. I got married at 21, my husband at 23. He paid for his entire university education...part of how he paid for it was by selling grass to fellow students, but he did work weekends in a research lab as well. We've never received anything from either set of parents, no help financially whatsoever. He's worked from a young age virtually non stop. Became a top executive in a multinational company. Retired early. I graduated from university while married to him and when the kids were young.


A 25 year old at home, sleeping with his woman under mom and dad's roof while mom and dad pay for college, food a car and insurance seem well, over indulging someone who it seems to me ought to be picking up some of his own way in life by now. But many parent seem to in my opinion only, over indulge their young adult kids these days. But hey like I said, that is just me. If it works for them and everyone is happy camper terrific. I may be the one with hang the hang ups. Maybe marg's way is better.


You don't know the background, that my husband rarely spent time with the kids as they grew up,due to demanding job and traveling. I'm the boss when it comes to them. My son was born with imperforated anus. In addition when he was about 10 via research at a university library I learned he had developmental coordination disorder affecting fine motor skills which he hasn't grown out of. You don't know what both of those entail, nor the affects on esteem, social life, schooling, job prospects etc. I knew at the time he was 10 he was high risk for depression, anti-social behavior, dropping out of school, withdrawal etc. Nor do you know his fiance was hit by a car before they met, was in a coma for months, developed flesh eating disease on one leg. Is still having operations on her leg, one just done last month and currently can't work or take courses. Everybody is unique. I don't go by rules or social convention.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

marg,

What I see in your description of your son is that he has set and is working toward a goal. Given the additional information you've provided, I'd say he's doing wonderfully well inspite of some real challenges.

I admire goal setters!
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_harmony
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _harmony »

marg wrote:[
You don't know the background, that my husband rarely spent time with the kids as they grew up,due to demanding job and traveling. I'm the boss when it comes to them. My son was born with imperforated anus. In addition when he was about 10 via research at a university library I learned he had developmental coordination disorder affecting fine motor skills which he hasn't grown out of. You don't know what both of those entail, nor the affects on esteem, social life, schooling, job prospects etc. I knew at the time he was 10 he was high risk for depression, anti-social behavior, dropping out of school, withdrawal etc. Nor do you know his fiance was hit by a car before they met, was in a coma for months, developed flesh eating disease on one leg. Is still having operations on her leg, one just done last month and currently can't work or take courses. Everybody is unique. I don't go by rules or social convention.


I'm wondering why you didn't give this information in your prior post? Baiting, marg?

The bottom line remains the same, even though further information reveals that it's a necessity: he's still nursing at the maternal breast. And I can't imagine that he likes it.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_marg

Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _marg »

Thanks Jersey Girl, of course I can't present the complete picture, but I'm extremely pleased right now with his direction in life, the way he treats me and others, his girlfriend is wonderful as is her entire family.

I don't see a problem with teens rebelling against parents, it is normal. Of course the more rules one has,likely the more the rebellion. Some rules are beneficial others can be petty and/or just wrong.

The issue in this thread is how Westridge ..Utah Boys Ranch operates which from the sounds of it, is essentially an abusive jail for teens to wait their time in until they turn 18. It doesn't sound like it operates to encourage growth and individual self responsibility, but rather it strips individuals of their will and demoralizes them. And it is criminal that essentially good intelligent capable young individuals with minor issues if any, end up in places like that. I don't necessarily blame the parents, it would depend on each case and as well how ignorant they are of the program.

Even if individuals were seriously out of control it doesn't justify their being mistreated to such extremes as occurs at some of these teen rehab places which I've seen described on various web sites.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: The Mormon Gulag

Post by _Jersey Girl »

marg
Thanks Jersey Girl, of course I can't present the complete picture, but I'm extremely pleased right now with his direction in life, the way he treats me and others, his girlfriend is wonderful as is her entire family.


And of course you should be pleased! Allow me to take advantage of this exchange to bring you back in time :-) to this...

I've always said that what we see on the screen in no way represents the whole of who we are and in this case, we can't expect to have all the facts regarding a persons personal life. I myself, would much prefer that people ask questions instead of jumping to conclusions.

(Posted a zillion times on another board in another place in cyberspace)

Jersey Girl
;-)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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