Jesus Wants Us To Be Rich

[_Chap]

This thread illustrates an important point, which has contributed to the overall success of Christianity. Namely, Jesus does not teach very many specific things and his ethic is quite broad without a lot of detail. The teachings of the New Testament, especially, are very elastic and can be bent into supporting a dizzying array of conclusions:

• Asceticism? Check
• Monasticism? Check
• Celibacy? Check
• Large Families? Check
• War? Check
• Peace? Check
• Slavery? Check
• Prowess as a CEO? Check
• Socialism? Check
• Capitalism? Check

The New Testament is such a great book because it can be used as a proof test to buttress just about anything you already believe.

I tend to agree with this. The Gospels (in particular) are generally viewed by many scholars unconstrained by doctrinal commitments to inerrancy as being made up of a mass of originally unconnected 'sayings' and 'acts' that have been woven together into narratives at a later stage. We can say some things about the broad patterns of Jesus's life, teaching and death on the basis of what we read there (assuming we do not conclude that the whole thing is quite fictional, which I do not). But there is no hope of deriving a total ethical and religious system that is consistent with every word the Gospels contain.

That being the case, it is not surprising that people of very different inclinations apparently succeed in finding in the Gospels a great deal of what they were hoping to find there.

[_Dr. Shades]

Then why did he never get around to leveraging his position to get all that wealth?

Ever hear of the Kirtland Safety Society?

[_The Nehor]

Then why did he never get around to leveraging his position to get all that wealth?

Ever hear of the Kirtland Safety Society?

Yep, not sure how that was going to make him personally rich. He created it to help the Church as a whole who needed a financial institution.

[_The Nehor]

I'm willing to bet that The Nehor, like many other Mormons, is someone who views pornography on the Net in secret, then comes on to sites like this to absolve himself from "sin".

That seems obvious to me.

And after all, Mormon Utah leads the nation in porn viewing. It's called Family Porn Evening.

So you see, The Nehor, you're not really "special". You're just another willy wanker who thinks Joseph Smith will save you.

You're funny when you're angry.

[_Dr. Shades]

Ever hear of the Kirtland Safety Society?

Yep, not sure how that was going to make him personally rich.

It allowed him to print fake money so he could pay off all his debts.

He created it to help the Church as a whole who needed a financial institution.

There were already plenty of financial institutions available. The church didn't need its own bank.

[_The Nehor]

Yep, not sure how that was going to make him personally rich.

It allowed him to print fake money so he could pay off all his debts.

He created it to help the Church as a whole who needed a financial institution.

There were already plenty of financial institutions available. The church didn't need its own bank.

Joseph stood to lose as much or more then anyone involved in the bank.

The Church needed a bank friendly to their interests due to their financial situation. They needed credit due to increasing land prices.

[_cinepro]

Joseph stood to lose as much or more then anyone involved in the bank.

So when the bank failed, did Joseph lose as much or more than anyone involved?

[_The Nehor]

Joseph stood to lose as much or more then anyone involved in the bank.

So when the bank failed, did Joseph lose as much or more than anyone involved?

I don't have the exact figures and I don't think they exist. He did get a loan ($1225) to try to prop up the institution and lost it all. To say he did it to get rich seems ridiculous. Conmen collect the money and then cut and run. Smith tried to save his alleged scam. Either he is an incompetent scam artist or he really did form the Society to try to help the Saints. I lean towards the latter.

I should make it clear that I think creating the Kirtland Safety Society was a mistake. I think it was a project that overreached itself and was badly created. I don't think there was anything sinister about it though.

[_Inconceivable]

Then why did he never get around to leveraging his position to get all that wealth?

Ever hear of the Kirtland Safety Society?

I'd consider my post off topic but is worth thinking about:

A simple concept that aludes many (of the poor) is that one does not have to own something in order to control it.

Some of the most affluent people in the world own very little (on paper), but they influence much and have access to what they control. A CEO and his family does not have to own the company's Lear jets, homes in the Caymens and Scottsdale, a Senator from Chicago or a skybox at the Superdome.

When you quantify the perks that Joseph Smith indulged in as a prophet of an exclusive religeon, mayor of a city where he influenced it's charter, a chairman of a bank, general of a militia, you get a more vivid snapshot of what he was actually worth.

Smith understood these concepts of wealth, power and influence (as did Brigham Young). Keep in mind that Smith was running for the presidency of the United States when the world was liberated of him.

[_The Nehor]

Keep in mind that Smith was running for the presidency of the United States when the world was liberated of him.

Unfortunately said liberation from said Smith will result in destruction of said world and then he can come back and they won't have to coexist anymore.