When does the fear go away?

[_Scottie]

by the way, I happen to have significant difficulty with several of the truth claims, but I do not have evidence of corruption at the highest levels and I have been around the net and while the assertion of such corruption is abundant, the evidence is almost non-existent.

There is some evidence of corruption. I can't remember the details, but there was a parcel of land in AZ that was bought for over twice the value by the LDS church or something to that effect. There is also evidence of heavy nepotism in the construction of church owned buildings... including the downtown mall. Scratch probably has more details about these.

However, I certainly don't see the GA's with million dollar jets and yachts. They spend an inordinate amount of time devoted to the church. If they were to work as much in the private sector as they do at being GA's, I'm sure they could be much wealthier than they are.

[_Inconceivable]

Ditto.

I would add that I am not redeemable to Mormonism.

You see, even if the spiritual witnesses I received while a Mormon came from the God of the universe himself, I would reject him as having nothing more than a flawed man's character.

I can aspire to be better than that. We all ought to.

This is my problem with how they always put an emphasis on good feelings. What if porn gives you good feelings? Having sex? Attending rock concerts? Riding rollercoasters? Can we say that all of these things are spiritual experiences?

The problem is they reduce the Holy Ghost to nothing but warm fuzzies, and that's definitely not the Holy Ghost of the Bible. I had the same warm-fuzzies when I saw my all-time favorite band in person for the first time at a rock concert. Warm fuzzies are not spiritual, they are based on chemicals fired by the brain based on your desires.

The Holy Ghost of the Bible is a comforter that is supposed to be Christ's way of living in us, not warm-fuzzies. Maybe that's why that even though they claim to have a spiritual witness, it is still a cold, uncaring environment.

Hope you don't mind me carrying this over from the other thread.

Warm fuzzies..

As a member, I could actually tell the difference. I channelled the Mormon God's will through many priesthood blessings over my life - revelations/healings I am still convinced I was incapable of generating within myself.

(And speaking of corruption) the Mormon church is like a bad computer virus, it ruins everything. I pretty much need a lower level format. Because of the deep, painful and profound sense of betrayal that yet affects my life and my loved ones each day, it's still more like a bad dream that won't go away.

[_BobAliceEve]

To abstract: if some organization is "true" then it does not matter if any earthly court including the UN declares it a cult.

To be specific: if a gift is given grudgingly then it is not counted as a gift.

Cult or not, your gifts to the organization would be given grudgingly so you are already not giving so you are already gone.

[_truth dancer]

Hey L, Welcome to the board,

My heart goes out to you. Leaving ones religion/culture/belief system is not easy that is for sure. Mormonism is especially difficult.

A couple of thoughts...

First, I came to a place where I felt deeply in my core being that the greatest "sin" is not living true to ones heart and mind. While I don't really see mistakes as something associated with Satan (smile), I still see the thwarting of individual gifts, inspiration, care, and authenticity to follow, conform, and obey, as something deeply disturbing.

Seems to me the world needs more creativity, more people listening to their intuition, more people trying to bring enlightenment to the world, NOT more people following and holding on, with fear and trembling to teachings/doctrine/dogma that may not work, or bring forth peace and kindness.

We are fortunate to have found ourselves on this earth and if there is some sort of divine being (or beings) out there with any sort of enlightenment, love, care, concern for us, this entity would most likely want each of us to express the goodness within us in the best way we possibly can.

I just can't imagine the scenario where the judgment day comes and God condemns someone for doing what they truly believe is right and good and honest.

Which would be the most holy choice? Conforming to a religion (any religion) that seems lacking in integrity, teachings untruths, creates conflict and arrogance and fills ones life with confusion and frustration OR, living in the way one feels brings the most goodness to their existence and honor to their life?

I found a quote by Stephanie Marshall, years ago that reflected how I view this...

"Learning emerges from discovery, not directives; reflection, not rules;
possibilities, not prescriptions; diversity, not dogma; creativity and
curiosity, not conformity and certainty; and meaning, not mandates."

As I came to realize that letting go of Mormonism, was for me the more holy choice, and actually the choice I needed to make to live in peace and joy and authenticity, the fear was released and replaced by an enormous calm; the knot that was in my stomach for so many years unraveled and I found a physical sense of wellness throughout my body.

It is difficult to describe how I feel today after letting go of Mormonism. We do know how stress effects our bodies and minds and for me Mormonism was living in a constant state of extreme fear and stress. I found no peace ever. I was never good enough, ever doing as much as I should, couldn't quite do the perfect thing.

But, I as I looked up at the sky at night, as I watched the sun rise over the Atlantic ocean, as I tended to my garden, somehow I sensed that life was not about all the dogma, demands, rituals, handshakes, rules, conformity, obedience, outlandish stories, wearing of garments, keys, power, authority, patriarchy, having faith in the impossible, following, etc. etc. etc.

For me, life was about living in the most lovely way we can. It is about caring for those in need, learning from our mistakes, making our little corner of the world as beautiful as possible.

Simple as that.

~td~

[_why me]

Mormonism isn't like most other religions. EVERYTHING you do is filtered through the Mormon experience. Most Mormons don't simply practice the Mormon religion, they ARE Mormons. At my core, no matter what else, I was a Mormon first and foremost. The fear of losing a part of you that makes up a large amount of your self is a very hard thing to go through. Of all the emotions I remember about that time in my life, fear is the one I remember the most.

You obviously have very little experience with other religions. For a good catholic, every thing they do is filtered through the catholic experience. And most catholics may not practice their religion but they are catholic. For a devout catholic, daily mass is a must or at least sunday mass. It is an obligation which means it is a sin if a catholic misses sunday mass. Not to mention yearly retreats and weekly adorations that are attended.

For someone who believes in god, their church experience is tied to their church in most cases. And yes, there may be fear when unbelief enters the picture.

Also, if one comes to the conclusion that a church is false, what is there to fear? It would seem that such a belief would foster liberation. Now here is the catch. In the LDS faith, the truth claim is strong and no one has proven the LDS church false. And so, there is still the possibility that it is true. Thus, the fear.

[_EAllusion]

Since you actually believed in the LDS faith, I can see why you would focus on it. That being said, you logically should have the same "what if I am wrong" feeling about every other mutually exclusive religious possibility that involves negative consequences for being wrong. If you were a believer in the LDS faith, that includes those religions that argue that warrants hell. And if the issue is religion vs. no religion, there is always the possibility that God punishes those who become religious and believe in him because God sees theism as irrational and hates it. After all, whyme can't prove that is false with complete metaphysical certitude.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Walmart,

In the LDS faith, the truth claim is strong and no one has proven the LDS church false. And so, there is still the possibility that it is true. Thus, the fear.

Sigh.

No one has proven that there aren't a billion fairies pulling stings to make us move, or spider-like aliens using mind control to get us going, or leprechauns that secretly come out at night and spray magic dust on us to keep us alive.

I mean seriously, this line of thoughts is nonsense.

The LDS church has about the same chance of being what it claims as does every other religion, church, cult, faith tradition, and myth ever created by humans.

No difference.



~td~

[_Mary]

Hi LDS Doubter, I can relate to you on this. Very much so.

I remember when I took off my garments, since I had decided that I would not ever be going to the temple again, that I felt that it was an either/or situation.

I would either stay at church and be on the Lord's side (as my patriarchal blessing points out), or I would be on the slippery slide of the devil's way.

I remember thinking that if leaving the church meant that I would be going the way of the devil, then that's what I would have to do. I was absolutely traumatised at the time.

When I first started posting on the Mad board, I was very sensitive to those who would see only 2 roads for a believer. I'm not particularly sensitive to it now. You can only be told so many times that you are in the hands of the adversary (and I had not a few acquaintances from back in the day that told me just that) before it becomes trite and useless, even if done so in love.

Do I think I am in the hands of the adversary now (about 15 or so years later), do I still see only two choices. No. I think that means I have made progress in my own thinking. So, to me, it gets easier.

At the end of the day, I have to live with the decisions I have made, some good and some not so good.

I know that whilst active (and I KNOW this isn't universally how LDSism is interpreted) I saw God as a Nepotist, as hard, an elitist who expected perfection of me, and I don't think I ever felt like I matched up, no matter how hard I tried.

As an inactive, and perhaps a tiny bit wiser I see God as merciful and loving, kind and patient, forgiving and generous. (I know there are passages where Joseph Smith describes God in this way) Perhaps it is all part of growing up active or not.

There's still so much good in the church though. The family, the community, the friendliness, the involvement, the sincerity. There's a lot to lose. I've lost a lot by losing my belief in many of the truth claims of the LDS church. But I don't believe I am in the hands of the adversary. Not for one minute. If I try and be true and honest with myself and others, if I try to be good and kind and forgiving, how can that translate into being in the realm of a mysterious but malignant force?

Mary

[_Jason Bourne]

Dr. Shades:


The D&C 84 verse I think proves Mormonism a cult, since one of the hallmarks of a cult is that if you ever try to leave you are said to be damned or accursed in some way. Also, I do not believe those that run this scam believe what they are teaching for one minute. Another hallmark of a cult. The fact they use the name "Jesus Christ" in the name of the con is taking the Lord's name in vain.

The problem is it gets a hold on you and you always have it in the back of your mind wondering "what if?" Its like they're saying, "So you think we're a con, wanna bet your soul on it?" I think that's why its time for the government to come in and stop these cults, this and Scientology, Jehovah's Witness, and anyone else doing this mind-control crap.

Impossible, you may say, because it curtails religious freedom. Now, imagine making a law that said religious institutions cannot run "for-profit" enterprises and must disclose all statements to the government and members. I guarantee these cult scams would all go away in three weeks time.
.

The LDS Church is no more of a cult than any other sect of Christianity. The verse in D&C 84 does not make it so. How about this from Hebrews Chapter 10:

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

If you think D&C 84 make the LDS Church a cult than the verses from Hebrews above makes all of Christianity a cult.

I also think you would be hard pressed to prove that all the LDS Leaders knowingly believe the LDS Church to be false.

[_karl61]

Just some of my thoughts: you have to study it out your self as to why there is fear. I think it is in the New Testament where it says perfect love cast out all fear. When I was nineteen I was so worried about what people would think about me if I did not go out to the mission field that I went even though it was the last thing I really wanted to do. That was really sad. I lived in fear. But one thing that I have observed and that you might look and see is if the LDS culture fosters fear. Some LDS fear anything the General Authorities say to stay away from. This could include things that are not promoting the LDS faith.

Look at the The Hebrew Bible and look at the New Testament. I just realized this a few minutes ago after I finished reading James and the end of First Kings and the beginning of Second Kings. I thought to myself. There is something missing here - the language of "chains".

If you go to the LDS sciptures and look up chains it is almost the language of the Book of Mormon and the D&C and Pearl of Great Price that scares you.

The New Testament really is a message of hope.

But look at the context of the word chains. In the New Testament it is to make one submissive to Christ or about those who did not get a body, but in the Book of Mormon, D&C and Pearl of Great Price it has to do with humans being bound by Satan. Now is this just the rhetoric of the early 19th century preachers. Each person has to determine this for themselves.

http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/search?sea ... &do=Search