Question for the Atheist

[_Tarski]

Stak and Tarski -

Since Ceeboo's OP is based on the question of why the three friends at the party could not seem to agree on what it means to be an atheist I think he is looking for something with more explanatory power.

I would suggest the simple answer is accurate enough just as defining theism is to believe in a God or Gods. Yet that answer tells us very little and once one tries to get into the detail of what it means the similarities between various theistic ideas becomes much more discreet.

Unless Stak has finally sat down as the lion with the lambs at the same table as the neo-atheists, wrapped in brotherly love and common good will?

OK then how about this: The meaning of the word "atheist", like most words, does not have a hard edge. There is some semantic ambiguity. If more definiteness is needed, it will have to come out in the given conversation.

The situation for the word "theist" seems even more fuzzy since, these days, one never quite knows what is meant by "God".

I think we have to live with it and clarify things on a conversation by conversation basis.

[_honorentheos]

I agree with that, Stak and Tarski.

Personally, I think there is a tendency to keep one's view of "the other" as simple as possible. When faced with nuance or apparent diversity in these "others" views the easiest way to re-consolidate the problem into a tidy package is to assume this is a product of confusion or some other deficiency.

Religious critics like to do this as well when discussing the problems in theism.

I think any time we lose sight of the nuance and diversity in people's views we have stepped outside of attempting to understand this other and are now simply looking for an explanation. The two differ, in my opinion, in that understanding is an attempt to place ones-self in the other's mind in an attempt to see what they see or feel what they feel no matter how inadequately while explanation is an attempt to place the behaviour of the other within the boundaries of a definition in one's own mind.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey Tarski (If my memory serves me, I think I recall that you had a health scare a while back. Hope all is well)

If more definiteness is needed, it will have to come out in the given conversation.

Great (That is exactly what I am searching for)
Here we go:

Hi Tarski, rumor has it that you are an atheist.

How would you define what it is/means to be an atheist?

The situation for the word "theist" seems even more fuzzy since, these days, one never quite knows what is meant by "God".

Agree!

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Tarski]

Hey Tarski (If my memory serves me, I think I recall that you had a health scare a while back. Hope all is well)

If more definiteness is needed, it will have to come out in the given conversation.

Great (That is exactly what I am searching for)
Here we go:

Hi Tarski, rumor has it that you are an atheist.

How would you define what it is/means to be an atheist?

I don't really search for a fool-proof definition since in most cases simply saying that I don't believe in God seems to be enough. What this usually means (and is understood to mean) is that I don't accept or have faith in any of the God stories we find in the scriptures of the major monotheistic religions.

On the other hand, the reality is that I am not always so sure of things in a bigger context. Might there be a notion of God that speaks to me, one that would have little to do with the Bible and a lot to do with appreciation of the mystery of existence? Perhaps.
It sounds silly to say it, but I have experienced the "mysterium tremendum" or at least my version of it and it almost did me in.

I really prefer to think of myself as a skeptic regarding religion rather than simply an atheist.

Politically I am an atheist in the sense that I don't want the assumptions of theism to be built into our system. Atheists should be politically and socially on equal footing with everyone else. I encourage the most secular view on our political system possible. If a moral or social value really can't stand without a God notion, then I imagine it isn't worth keeping anyway.

[_Ceeboo]

Hey again, Tarski

I don't really search for a fool-proof definition since in most cases simply saying that I don't believe in God seems to be enough. What this usually means (and is understood to mean) is that I don't accept or have faith in any of the God stories we find in the scriptures of the major monotheistic religions.

Understood (Thanks)

On the other hand, the reality is that I am not always so sure of things in a bigger context. Might there be a notion of God that speaks to me, one that would have little to do with the Bible and a lot to do with appreciation of the mystery of existence? Perhaps.

Interesting (again, thanks)

It sounds silly to say it, but I have experienced the "mysterium tremendum" or at least my version of it and it almost did me in.

Doesn't sound silly to me at all.

I really prefer to think of myself as a skeptic regarding religion rather than simply an atheist.

Cool!

Atheists should be politically and socially on equal footing with everyone else.

They should indeed.

I encourage the most secular view on our political system possible.

Hmmmm?
for what it's worth, I encourage a political system that has representation for all the various beliefs.

If a moral or social value really can't stand without a God notion, then I imagine it isn't worth keeping anyway.

??
Can you offer an example of what you mean?

Thanks for the thorough reply (I appreciate it) :)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_EAllusion]

Tarkski, Stak -

Deists aren't atheists. They also aren't theists. Ditto for pantheists.

[_Tarski]

Tarkski, Stak -

Deists aren't atheists. They also aren't theists. Ditto for pantheists.

What made you say that?

[_MrStakhanovite]

Tarkski, Stak -

Deists aren't atheists. They also aren't theists. Ditto for pantheists.

????

[_EAllusion]

Tarksi, Stak -

You defined atheist as "not theist." But not everyone who is "not theist" is an atheist. Deists, for example.

[_MrStakhanovite]

You defined atheist as "not theist." But not everyone who is "not theist" is an atheist. Deists, for example.

I think Deists and Pantheists are Atheists.