Censorship Rampage over Bott

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_bcspace
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _bcspace »

That becomes more and more difficult since they seem to be dead set on promoting discussions where their personal opinions appear to win out. This means in other threads they'll rationalize whatever excuse they want to ban someone, and when they don't even have to explain their reasons of even announce that someone has "left the building" via coercion, then this means they can abuse their privilege all the while pretending to be interested in open discussion. DCP clearly doesn't know what he is talking about and what we are seeing is just astounding. Internet Mormons everywhere are coming together and letting the apologetic front determine policy. They're treating these apologetic explanations as doctrine and dismissing the real doctrine as folklore! If you pay close attention to what the Church has said, even in its recent release, there is nothing in it that says Bott was wrong in his speculation. All it says is that it was his speculation that the Church isn't obligated to accept as doctrine. But listening to LDS members whine about this, you'd think the Church fully supports their attacks on Bott. Well, it doesn't.


What I find interesting is that some of them in times past have been dead set opposed to the Church's stance on doctrine which was summarized in the Newsroom in 2007 (Approaching Mormon Doctrine). I've argued the Church's stance since decades before that. But now these same people are diving headlong into it and are treating two Newsroom articles as the absolute word of God. Of course I agree that the statements are official doctrine and I agree with every word of them. Though of course, I don't interpret more into them than is already there like they do.

The height of irony (and hypocrisy).
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
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_Droopy
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _Droopy »

This means in other threads they'll rationalize whatever excuse they want to ban someone, and when they don't even have to explain their reasons of even announce that someone has "left the building" via coercion, then this means they can abuse their privilege all the while pretending to be interested in open discussion. Internet Mormons everywhere are coming together and letting the apologetic front determine policy. They're treating these apologetic explanations as doctrine and dismissing the real doctrine as folklore!


Absolutely correct. The examples that come to mind here, of David Bokovoy and Loyd Ericson, just to name two, stand out as emblematic of the phenomena in question, and how the biases of the mods condition how certain views and arguments are received and whether dissenting views get a hearing or not. I and other TBM/conservatives at the MDD board can well testify of how these biases condition discussion and debate.


What I find interesting is that some of them in times past have been dead set opposed to the Church's stance on doctrine which was summarized in the Newsroom in 2007 (Approaching Mormon Doctrine). I've argued the Church's stance since decades before that. But now these same people are diving headlong into it and are treating two Newsroom articles as the absolute word of God. Of course I agree that the statements are official doctrine and I agree with every word of them. Though of course, I don't interpret more into them than is already there like they do.


Yup. I think Enrichment Section L of the old D&C manual still has some of them wound up tight.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _Droopy »

While I agree with the Church's position wholeheartedly, something Ares said, in setting down some new board guidelines, struck me:

As Nemesis warned in an earlier thread the Moderation team is taking a stronger stance against Threads and Posts that are intended to Race Bait. This also includes posts that are considered racially charged to a reasonable reader regardless of the posters intent.


Conservatives/libertarians with ideologically incorrect, unclean, and un-Sunstone perspectives on contemporary issues of race beware: this is fair waring of the low bar for banning and thread removal if you overstep the clear if vaguely demarcated boundaries of politically correct propriety.

Race now joins abortion, homosexuality, economic theory, and any intersection between the gospel and politics as outside the pall of discussion at the FAIR message board.

And so it goes.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_bcspace
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _bcspace »

Yup. I think Enrichment Section L of the old D&C manual still have them all in a tizzy.


Old? It's still in the latest edition of that manual. Perhaps you meant " ol' ". But it's official doctrine that's been around for a long time.
lol

The moderation on the MDD has essentially labeled more than half the participants in the poll racists and I'm getting a lot of angry messages about that because I think some people for whatever reason look to me as a "moderator of the moderators". The fact of the matter is that no one, not even xander, is defending Bott's speculations and no one posting there has posted anything remotely close to supporting racism.

Judging from the messages I'm receiving from other members of that board, FAIR is probably going to be losing some donations or potential donations over this. Like it or not, the MDD is still associated with that organization. It's no big deal really. Even at the regional level in the Church, few have ever heard of FAIR. But we do get messages from the brethren from time to time on various public issues and how to deal with them when they come up. Some of them come pretty fast......

My advice to the members of that board is to just soldier on and ignore them. The Church does. But there's still the need to get the Church's pov across even on boards like that one.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_bcspace
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _bcspace »

Pall? Was that intentional? Very cromulent.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_bcspace
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _bcspace »

As Nemesis warned in an earlier thread the Moderation team is taking a stronger stance against Threads and Posts that are intended to Race Bait. This also includes posts that are considered racially charged to a reasonable reader regardless of the posters intent.


Then they should be closing down the still open threads. But they're not because as long as it's offensive to the majority (as evidenced by the poll), such things will remain front and center.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Droopy
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _Droopy »

Old? It's still in the latest edition of that manual. Perhaps you meant " ol' ". But it's official doctrine that's been around for a long time.
lol


Yeah. The one I have is from about 1980. The new one (they have a copy at my branch) doesn't even have Enrichment Section L in it anymore. Unless there are now two versions (could be, I'm not "in the loop" on much of that stuff out here).

The moderation on the MDD has essentially labeled more than half the participants in the poll racists and I'm getting a lot of angry messages about that because I think some people for whatever reason look to me as a "moderator of the moderators". The fact of the matter is that no one, not even xander, is defending Bott's speculations and no one posting there has posted anything remotely close to supporting racism.


Julianne has gone way over the top, especially savaging Le Sellers. I know politically correct righteous indignation when I see it, and its isn't the same as the "righteous indignation" of the scriptural kind.

Judging from the messages I'm receiving from other members of that board, FAIR is probably going to be losing some donations or potential donations over this. Like it or not, the MDD is still associated with that organization. It's no big deal really. Even at the regional level in the Church, few have ever heard of FAIR. But we do get messages from the brethren from time to time on various public issues and how to deal with them when they come up. Some of them come pretty fast......


There's a "neo-orthodox" contingent in the moderator population there, and whatever that means in a broader context, it doctrinally it manifests itself in areas precisely such as this, that have close interface to political/social issues that became of serious concern to the Baby Boom and post-Baby Boom generation. Unfortunately, some of the other intellectual baggage attending that generation's philosophical development have also been shifted into the apologetic community from the secular academy ( I think when David Bokovoy said that he intended to encourage the CES to remove Enrichment Section L from the manual, that became an indication to me of just how far "the intellectuals" (in Paul Johnson's and Thomas Sowell's sense) are willing to go to infuse the church itself with a bit of "enlightened" thinking.

My advice to the members of that board is to just soldier on and ignore them. The Church does. But there's still the need to get the Church's pov across even on boards like that one.


Interesting that various members of the board need to hold fast to the Church's pov when the mods refuse, sometimes covertly, and sometimes openly, to do so themselves.

Wither goes FAIR?
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
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Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _Droopy »

bcspace wrote:Pall? Was that intentional? Very cromulent.



Pale. Yet another typo that Darth will take to be an indication of my lack of intelligence.

I'm very discromulated about it, really.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _bcspace »

Yeah. The one I have is from about 1980. The new one (they have a copy at my branch) doesn't even have Enrichment Section L in it anymore. Unless there are now two versions (could be, I'm not "in the loop" on much of that stuff out here).


Here you go:

http://institute.LDS.org/courses/

Section L still there. Direct link to section L:

http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-200-j-l-l.asp
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Censorship Rampage over Bott

Post by _Droopy »

bcspace wrote:
Yeah. The one I have is from about 1980. The new one (they have a copy at my branch) doesn't even have Enrichment Section L in it anymore. Unless there are now two versions (could be, I'm not "in the loop" on much of that stuff out here).


Here you go:

http://institute.LDS.org/courses/

Section L still there. Direct link to section L:

http://institute.LDS.org/manuals/doctrine-and-covenants-institute-student-manual/dc-in-200-j-l-l.asp




Hmmm. Maybe I missed it. I've got the old manual, which I actually like better as to format.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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