Joseph's Swamp

[_why me]

In summary, it's the anti-Mormons' fault that Joseph Smith was a con artist.

The bank crisis was basically the fault of the economy and of non-lds investors who demanded their money back just three weeks into the bank's founding. The banking crisis was national in scope with many banks feeling the pinch and it resembled 2008. Most new banks would have gone under back then and especially a Mormon bank with non-lds investors out to destroy the bank.

[_Darth J]

In summary, it's the anti-Mormons' fault that Joseph Smith was a con artist.

The bank crisis was basically the fault of the economy and of non-lds investors who demanded their money back just three weeks into the bank's founding. The banking crisis was national in scope with many banks feeling the pinch and it resembled 2008. Most new banks would have gone under back then and especially a Mormon bank with non-lds investors out to destroy the bank.

Yeah, Why Me. All those people deliberately lost tens of thousands of dollars of their own money just because they hated Joseph Smith so much. That makes a lot of damned sense.

[_Darth J]

When I get time, I'm going to start a thread explaining how Bernie Madoff was set up by anti-Semite investors who intentionally lost millions of dollars because they hate Jews.

[_hobo1512]

And if Smith hadn't scammed people trying to find buried treasure using peep stones, none of this would have happened.

See a trend here?

Con? I don't think so. You need to read up on this too. But it really has nothing to do with the thread. Mormons were murdered, had their property stolen or burned and they fled to nauvoo. And that is the point. Unless of course, you condone the killing of people or confiscationg their property because they belonged to Smith's church.

That would not be very catholic of you...

LOL, i think you need to get your head out of ......(we'll be nice here).....sand.

Why do you keep thinking I'm Catholic? I've never said one way or the other. Even if I am, you are the last person in the world who could ever tell someone they are not being very Catholic.

Step away from the bong.

[_hobo1512]

In summary, it's the anti-Mormons' fault that Joseph Smith was a con artist.

You picked up on that too.....

[_hobo1512]

And if Smith hadn't scammed people in the whole banking thing, taking all of their savings etc. none of this would have happened.

You need to read up on the Kirtland banking crisis and the role that antimormons played in the banks fall. Try Bushman's book pages 330 to 332. Hate is a very powerful tool and it can cause others some pain.

You also have to factor in that Smith's reputation/history of all his shenanigans caught up with him.
His conviction for the treasure finding scam, etc. etc.

News didn't travel fast back then, but it did travel.

I think it's funny that you try to pin all of this on non Mormon investors in the bank. Didn't any mo's have money in there?

Also, I didn't know religious affiliation was disclosed when you made a deposit or withdrawal. Wow, those banking rules were really stiff back then.

You realize mo investors pulled out too right?

[_Fence Sitter]

Bushman is a great reference for why the bank failed. Let's look at what he has to say in the pages referenced,

From Bushman’s RSR Pg 330-2

1. Capital stock was put at $4 million but only $21,000.00 in cash was put up. (Heber C Kimball bought $50,000.00 worth of shares for only $15.00.)
2. An 1816 Ohio law forbid private parties from issuing money so the bank was illegal from the start.
3. The Ohio legislature knew the pitfalls of underfunded banks which is why Hyde failed to get a charter.
4. The bank was floundering within three weeks of its start up.
All of the above happened before Bushman mentions the first ‘anti-Mormon (Granderson at the bottom of page 330) being involved with the bank. The bank didn’t fail because of any role anti-Mormons played in it, it failed because it was hugely under-capitalized and Joseph Smith had no clue what he was doing.

Evidently the Lord didn't know what Joseph was doing either because" (pg.332)

“Far from flourishing as their prophet had foretold, the Saints were caught in a downward spiral of personal losses and narrowing opportunities.”

Ironically instead of being caused by “anti Mormons” the bank failure created them. Says Bushman on the same page.

“Widespread apostasy resulted. Heber C. Kimbal claimed that by June 1837 (well after the bank had collapsed) not twenty men in Kirtland believed Joseph was a prophet”.

The entire three pages is an indictment against Joseph Smith's role in the bank, about the only thing Bushman says in Joseph Smith's defense is that he lost more money than anyone , which is ironic because he didn't have that money to begin with. Joseph didn't lose his own money, he lost other people's money and just went further into debt, something he would do over and over again. If the bank would have survived he stood to make more than anyone, if it failed, it wasn't his money that disappeared.

[_why me]

Bushman is a great reference for why the bank failed. Let's look at what he has to say in the pages referenced,

From Bushman’s RSR Pg 330-2

Please read the bottom of page 330 and get back to me. The sentence says: Meanwhile, Joseph's enemies attacked.

And then get back to me.

The bank was not a con job but an honest way to raise the capital needed for the saints. Unfortunately, the bank failed but so did other banks at that time. The banking crisis of 1837 was a result of a banking bubble that can also be seen in 2008. Bad luck.

[_why me]

You realize mo investors pulled out too right?

This is what happens when there is a panic. No different today. Capitalism is capitalism. But the bank was not a con job.

[_why me]

See a trend here?

At what point does Smith become responsible for his actions?

How is the vatican bank doing? No problems there right?