For Pahoran: Did Smith have sex with Helen Mar Kimball?

[Guest]

You don't honestly believe an 18th century horn dog would be able to have so much sex without leaving a trail of children do you? Your only answer so far has been and will be speculation and innuendo.

Did you mean 19th?

Abortion was available.

Withdrawal was available.

By 1838 condoms made from rubber (who'd have thought) were available.

By 1838 rubber diaphrams were available.

Reusable condoms were available well before the 19th century: see for instance the references in James Boswell's diary:

"Tuesday 10 May 1763
At the bottom of the Haymarket I picked up a strong, jolly young damsel, and taking her under the arm I conducted her to Westminster Bridge, and then in armour complete did I engage her upon this noble edifice. The whim of doing it there with the Thames rolling below us amused me much."

The idea that sex has to mean the inevitable begetting of children is only self-evident to those who have a lack of historical knowledge of the topic.

And I really, really cannot see why Mormons today would want to deny what the CoJCoLDS made great efforts to prove by affidavits of the women concerned given in the Temple Lot Case: that contrary to the contentions of the "Reorganised" Mormons, Smith had sex with his plural wives.

If he was married to them, why would he have not had sex with these women?

[_Ceeboo]

If he was married, why would he have not had sex with these women?

Ummmmm?
Because he was married!


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Chap]

If he was married, why would he have not had sex with these women?

Ummmmm?
Because he was married!


Peace,
Ceeboo

OK, since you insist:

ETA "To them"

[_sock puppet]

You don't honestly believe an 18th century horn dog would be able to have so much sex without leaving a trail of children do you? Your only answer so far has been and will be speculation and innuendo.

Did you mean 19th?

Abortion was available.

Withdrawal was available.

Indeed, Onanism dates back to Genesis.

[_Chap]

But amongst the things I'd love to get out of this thread is an answer to the question:

"Why do some modern Mormons seem so anxious to prove that Joseph Smith never had sex with any of those women he was married to apart from wife number 1?"

Why?

[_lulu]

Indeed, Onanism dates back to Genesis.

I wonder what they called "levi lovin'" back then?

[_sock puppet]

Indeed, Onanism dates back to Genesis.

I wonder what they called "levi lovin'" back then?

I think the Biblical term is dry humpin.

[_Ceeboo]

Indeed, Onanism dates back to Genesis.

And Onanism is usually a sign of a great date.


Peace,
Ceeboo

[_Chap]

OK, so we have dealt with two reasons for supposing that Smith did not have sex with Helen Mar Kimball, a girl to whom he was married:

1. Because she was living with her parents (I mean, don't laugh! They married the girl to the Prophet!)

2. Because she is not known to have given birth to a child by him.

And of course as Mormon apologists have argued (see above) the mere fact that she was fourteen need not have been any barrier in the time and place in which Smith lived.

Is there any other reason to suppose that he would not have had sex with this particular woman he was married to?

[_son of Ishmael]

OK, so we have dealt with two reasons for supposing that Smith did not have sex with Helen Mar Kimball, a girl to whom he was married:

1. Because she was living with her parents (I mean, don't laugh! They married the girl to the Prophet!)

2. Because she is not known to have given birth to a child by him.

And of course as Mormon apologists have argued (see above) the mere fact that she was fourteen need not have been any barrier in the time and place in which Smith lived.

Is there any other reason to suppose that he would not have had sex with this particular woman he was married to?

Good point. On one hand they say that getting married at 14 was common in that day yet they still want to say that Joseph Smith did not have sex with a 14 year old girl. They would be better served to just own it. Just say "Yes Joseph Smith married all of those women and had sex with them all."