You can enter the Kingdom of God right now.

[_jo1952]

I am not forcing you to believe anything. I am just asking you to explain how your model works with this bit a factual data. According to your model our self identity is eternal. How then do you explain it becoming divided into two independent separately thinking selves?

Frank seemed to ascribe it all to the brain In other words the mortal matter and laws that science ascribes it to. But then what is left for the immortal essence to do if the mortal brain does the thinking and reasoning and experiences the self? Do we not think after death in your model? If we do, then when in mortality does the brain have its own thoughts apart from our immortal self? Does the essence control which thoughts the brain comes up with are acted upon? Whatever it is supposed to do you have to explain why the immortal self simultaneously controls each hemisphere in a different way, why it simultaneously expresses different desires and viewpoints.

An avatar doesn't know what is really going on. They are motivated, by their lack of knowledge, to make choices which are new to that avatar. The avatar's brain is purposely limited; they are not the brain we have in our first or second estate. Our ultimate, first estate self, has already made every choice there is to make. We know the effect of each choice we could ever make because we have already made those choices. By creating a "new" self, and by giving that new self its own brain...which has never made a choice about anything, we can enjoy the experiences of the new self which has no awareness of what making choices feels like....or the consequences of those choices. We don't know ahead of time what that new self is going to choose because the new self hasn't had the experience of making new choices. As the ultimate self, the creator of the new self, we now get to experience life through the eyes of the new creation.

[_spotlight]

I don't think that your conclusion of what you are seeing is accurate. But you are certainly allowed to believe that it is.

So when communicating with one hemisphere it responds that when it grows up it wants to be a race car driver, and when communicating with the other hemisphere it responds that when it grows up it wants to become a draftsman you disagree with what exactly? The facts? This didn't really take place? How do you explain what is taking place if you think the scientists are interpreting it incorrectly?

[_Franktalk]

Frank seemed to ascribe it all to the brain In other words the mortal matter and laws that science ascribes it to.

No.

Here is another hint in scripture. Sadly it is surrounded by mostly myth.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

In this case the natural man is the natural mind. It does not have access to the knowledge of eternity. The spirit is a part of the human mind. Best described as a dimensional portal. It does not have control over the natural mind. But the spirit can give hints and visions of other possibilities to the natural mind. In most cases the natural mind has pushed aside the spirit and has bound the spirit with the desires of the world.

But in very rare cases the natural mind accepts the hints from the spirit and casts off the world. This allows the natural mind in that individual to live in peace and to try and live as instructed by Christ. Believing in the greater reality brings that reality to the earth. The job of Christ when He returns is to bring the Kingdom of God to this earth. This is done by informing the people that is already here. It is our choice to make this place hell or heaven. He will also describe the greater reality for us. Of course we are able to accept it or reject it. In time He will separate us into groups so we can maximize our joy.

You may wish to be left alone and discover things for yourself. A perfectly reasonable choice to make.

[_jo1952]

Spotlight,

I don't think we are supposed to be able to KNOW with 100% certainty. However, from time to time, we have "True Messengers" enter mortality with the responsibility to give us some direction for the very reason that our mortality-created belief systems gain so much control over the minds of the avatars. A "Christ", as one of those True Messengers, has a unique role in an eternal round. I believe that from the moment He was born, our Christ's brain (as is the case with all "Christs") was in complete connection to His advanced self. As such, there was zero doubt in His mind as to what is going on. He KNEW the Real Truth.

OTOH, other TM's have their brains "altered" (if you will) AFTER they have been in mortality and after they have been subjected to the traditions of our fathers...In other words, after they have been taught to believe or act the way the world wants them to. They are altered in person, face-to-face with someone from the second estate. Otherwise, they would not be able to discern whether it is their own thoughts that are sneaking into their minds.

The goal of True Messengers (including Christ) is to present an alternate choice in which to believe. They will not interfere with the existing belief systems (in accordance with the importance of free will)...they merely present an alternative. It is up to the avatar to choose to believe it, or not; if they choose to believe, then they will have the eyes to see and ears to hear beyond what the world has taught. Because free will is so important, our advanced self wants its avatar to have the opportunity to choose to believe the Real Truth if the avatar wants to believe it. When belief systems become so powerful that the avatar's ability to even desire to believe something other than what the world believes are the circumstances of what the avatar is born into, we level the playing field by sending ourselves TM's to offer Real Truth. They are sent to teach among the very people whose beliefs systems have gained an unfair advantage. So it is that they are born into major religions. The Jews, Islam, and Christianity have had TM's sent to them. I believe that there have even been TM's sent to other types of belief systems...for instance, philosophy. I think Socrates was a TM.

Inasmuch as I am NOT a True Messenger, my brain has not been altered. As such, I don't KNOW the Real Truth beyond the shadow of a doubt. Yet, I have now been able to accept what I believe is the alternative taught by TM's since the time our Advanced selves determined it was necessary in order to get the most out of the experiencing of mortality.

[_jo1952]

I don't think that your conclusion of what you are seeing is accurate. But you are certainly allowed to believe that it is.

So when communicating with one hemisphere it responds that when it grows up it wants to be a race car driver, and when communicating with the other hemisphere it responds that when it grows up it wants to become a draftsman you disagree with what exactly? The facts? This didn't really take place? How do you explain what is taking place if you think the scientists are interpreting it incorrectly?

It is not unusual for aberrations of the brain to occur. Sometimes we are born with them. Sometimes there are accidents, or illnesses, which cause the brain to act differently. What is believed by anyone becomes that person's truth; which doesn't mean that they have found the Real Truth.

Everything that we experience is experienced inside of our minds. We can be convinced to believe anything. We can only believe what we allow ourselves to believe. Thus, we are so easily deceived. It doesn't matter what we believe.

What do you think about conjoined twins? They can be sharing at least parts of the same body; but they certainly have two different essences. Have there been any that we know of who have shared the same brain?

[_spotlight]

In time He will separate us into groups so we can maximize our joy.

So a person with a split brain goes where if one hemisphere decides to accept Christ's message and the other hemisphere decides to reject it?

[_spotlight]

It is not unusual for aberrations of the brain to occur. Sometimes we are born with them. Sometimes there are accidents, or illnesses, which cause the brain to act differently. What is believed by anyone becomes that person's truth; which doesn't mean that they have found the Real Truth.

Everything that we experience is experienced inside of our minds. We can be convinced to believe anything. We can only believe what we allow ourselves to believe. Thus, we are so easily deceived. It doesn't matter what we believe.

What do you think about conjoined twins? They can be sharing at least parts of the same body; but they certainly have two different essences. Have there been any that we know of who have shared the same brain?

If it doesn't matter what we believe then why does it matter if we are deceived?? Anyhow you are side stepping the question and not answering it. I guess that is necessary in a world where beliefs Trump evidence and precede rather than follow discovered facts.

[_Franktalk]

So a person with a split brain goes where if one hemisphere decides to accept Christ's message and the other hemisphere decides to reject it?

You fail to see what is going on. Jo is describing her belief that the Kingdom of God is here for all if we wish to accept it. This is not a forum on observations of the brain. Who cares about the little picture. As long as you examine the world through a microscope you will miss most of the world.

If you wish to play games, fine. That is why we are here. But my free will tells me there is a limit to this kind of game. I will just refuse to play.

[_spotlight]

You fail to see what is going on. Jo is describing her belief that the Kingdom of God is here for all if we wish to accept it. This is not a forum on observations of the brain. Who cares about the little picture. As long as you examine the world through a microscope you will miss most of the world.

If you wish to play games, fine. That is why we are here. But my free will tells me there is a limit to this kind of game. I will just refuse to play.

Of course you will refuse to play. It's because the little pictures disprove your larger world view. That's the utility of facts. They allow constraints to be placed upon proposed models of reality. Otherwise we are adrift in a sea without a rudder to borrow a phrase you might be familiar with.

Remember your big challenge on a different thread? "Where do new ideas come from?" How you think is your concern of course but you ought to be consistent. Granting that this would prove the eternal nature of the human mind for the sake of argument, give the following minute of video a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkiPCKlNjX0 5:22 to 6:23

Where did the chimpanzee's new thought come from? What does that say about chimpanzees according to your logic?

[_Franktalk]

Of course you will refuse to play. It's because the little pictures disprove your larger world view. That's the utility of facts. They allow constraints to be placed upon proposed models of reality. Otherwise we are adrift in a sea without a rudder to borrow a phrase you might be familiar with.

Remember your big challenge on a different thread? "Where do new ideas come from?" How you think is your concern of course but you ought to be consistent. Granting that this would prove the eternal nature of the human mind for the sake of argument, give the following minute of video a watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkiPCKlNjX0 5:22 to 6:23

Where did the chimpanzee's new thought come from? What does that say about chimpanzees according to your logic?

Enjoy your view of reality. I don't care what you believe.