Former Stake President Excommunicated for being a woman.

[_DoubtingThomas]

Like this guy...

You keep sharing unreliable sources. The Daily Mail publishes a lot of fake news.

and please don't keep ignoring what I told you

"By definition Gender means "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones" https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

and it doesn't really matter. Words and definitions are created by humans, not by the universe, not by God. We create our own purpose and meaning. I honestly don't see a point in your argument, it is not like we are denying biology, we know the former stake president can't get pregnant, we know she doesn't have a menstrual cycle, we know she has a penis, we know she is stronger. No one is denying that. So what exactly is your problem?"

[_Gadianton]

Actually I think Lemmie reduced the problem to its shortest form, so to speak. Of course you can imagine others being tricked which is why I would never ask if you can imagine others being tricked.

[_DoubtingThomas]

DoubtingThomas, yes, words are used to express a variety of meanings. So what? Your link also acknowledges this distinction. This very discussion is evidence that within the English lexicon the word "gender" caries a variety of meanings. That isn't evidence of a female brain existing in a male body.

but the definition of gender is "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones". The Oxford dictionary is "Considered the most authoritative and comprehensive English language dictionary in the world."
http://library.princeton.edu/resource/t ... oed-online

In other word the anatomy and physiology are irrelevant.

[_Jersey Girl]

This very discussion is evidence that within the English lexicon the word "gender" caries a variety of meanings.

No, the word gender does not carry a variety of meanings. It has one meaning. That you're conflating words/definitions/concepts is testimony to how little effort you've invested in coming to an understanding of these issues in order to form an opinion.

That is to say, you don't know what you're talking about.

[_Lemmie]

Remember that 144 page document I linked? The one that you didn't read, authored by a renowned expert with impeccable credentials at Johns Hopkins? He goes into this, citing studies finding that 80% of children who express transgender feelings spontaneously lose them. There are large numbers of people who testify that they were "tempted" by transgenderism to varying degrees at one point or another and for varying reasons both conscious and subconscious.

You mean the article in a non-peer-reviewed magazine published by a religious organization, the article that Johns Hopkins has disavowed, that has been completely debunked, and whose authors did NOT cite legitimate studies? The document I did start reading, until it became obvious what it was?

If you would like to cite references for your last sentence, feel free, but your link has no legitimacy.

[_Lemmie]

This I think is a key point. You keeps emphasizing that you are not directly harming the SP in the OP with your words here, so why doesn't it work both ways? How would it "neuter" your "own identity" if the person in the OP "[felt] good about himself," Water Dog???

How can you feel so threatened simply by the idea of--not the acquaintanceship with, not any interaction with, not even any day to day knowledge of, but just the IDEA of---another person feeling at ease with a different situation that you feel "neutered" by it??

I'd love for him to feel good about himself.

A transperson will never be a totally normal member of society no matter how badly they want it. I don't care if this ugly man wants to be a woman, he's not and never will be. I don't care how much surgery he gets. His appearance will always creep people out.

Yes, I can see you would love for her to feel good about herself.

Why does that demand action on my part?

What action is being demanded of you that makes you feel neutered?

What I reject is the notion that I am responsible for his feelings in any way.

Who is telling you that you are responsible for her feelings? Is that what is making you feel neutered?

The hard cold reality is that people are going to react to his behavior in ways that make him personally feel uncomfortable.

Sadly, yes. Bigots exist.

And there is nothing wrong with this. I am not a bigot or an asshole or any other nasty names because I have a completely natural and reasonable human reaction to this man.

The definition of bigotry, prejudice and intolerance.

However, instead of accepting that responsibility for his own behavior and situation, and coming to terms with it, he goes around crying and demanding that the whole world be changed into a massive safe space on his behalf.

I must have missed that. Could you post where she is "demanding that the whole world be changed"? Is that what is making you feel neutered?

I am making no demands of this man whatsoever. He, and you, however, are making demands of me.

What demands is she making of you? What demands am I making of you? Is your misperception of demands what is making you feel neutered?

[_DoubtingThomas]

Are you siding with DoubtingThomas's argument that a definition in the Oxford dictionary constitutes scientific evidence supporting the thesis of a female brain in a male body? This is your proof?

Now that is a straw-man. Re-read

but the definition of gender is "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones".

The Oxford dictionary is "Considered the most authoritative and comprehensive English language dictionary in the world."
http://library.princeton.edu/resource/t ... oed-online

"social and cultural differences" the anatomy and physiology are irrelevant.

[_Jersey Girl]

Welcome back Jersey Girl! It's nice of you to come visit me in hell. If you disagree with Oxford, please take that up with them instead of me.

Interesting tidbit from Wikipedia as well, who agrees, yes, the English word "gender" has more than one meaning.

Sexologist John Money introduced the terminological distinction between biological sex and gender as a role in 1955. Before his work, it was uncommon to use the word gender to refer to anything but grammatical categories.[1][2] However, Money's meaning of the word did not become widespread until the 1970s, when feminist theory embraced the concept of a distinction between biological sex and the social construct of gender. Today the distinction is strictly followed in some contexts, especially the social sciences[4][5]

A pretty strange comment from you either way. We're doing to argue about language now? Are you siding with DT's argument that a definition in the Oxford dictionary constitutes scientific evidence supporting the thesis of a female brain in a male body? This is your proof?

You're a base idiot who cannot even read and interpret what you yourself just referenced above. And this is why you need to stay in hell where I put you. I, at least, am unwilling to lead you by the nose every micro-step of the way.

Let me state it so simply that even a 5 year old can understand it.

There is a difference between gender and sex.
Gender means how you engage yourself in relation to the world as male or female.
Sex is how your biological characteristics define you as male or female.

Now, just for you, let me state that so a common male can understand it.

Gender is in your head.
Sex is in your pants.

[_Jersey Girl]

Are you siding with DoubtingThomas's argument that a definition in the Oxford dictionary constitutes scientific evidence supporting the thesis of a female brain in a male body? This is your proof?

Now that is a straw-man. Re-read

but the definition of gender is "Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones".

The Oxford dictionary is "Considered the most authoritative and comprehensive English language dictionary in the world."
http://library.princeton.edu/resource/t ... oed-online

"social and cultural differences" the anatomy and physiology are irrelevant.

He can't even comprehend what he himself posted. Let go or be dragged, DT.

[_Jersey Girl]

A pretty strange comment from you either way.

I believe you. You're a stranger to truth and accuracy.

We're doing to argue about language now?

Yes, because that's how the big boys and big girls communicate and reach understanding.

Are you siding with DT's argument that a definition in the Oxford dictionary constitutes scientific evidence supporting the thesis of a female brain in a male body? This is your proof?

My comments indicated NOTHING about scientific proof.

You're all over the place. You're unable to read. You're unable to think. Essentially, you're making crap up that doesn't appear on your screen and trying to manufacture a straw man argument out of it.

If you only had a brain...