Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

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_Gunnar
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _Gunnar »

Subby, the myth that scientific consensus predicted imminent global cooling in the '70s has been so thoroughly debunked so many times, even on this forum alone, repeating it once again only further underscores your own ignorance and stupidity and penchant for cherry picking.

What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?

Peer-Reviewed Literature

However, these are media articles, not scientific studies. A survey of peer reviewed scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 show that few papers predicted global cooling (7 in total). Significantly more papers (42 in total) predicted global warming (Peterson 2008). The large majority of climate research in the 1970s predicted the Earth would warm as a consequence of CO2. Rather than 1970s scientists predicting cooling, the opposite is the case.


Scientific Consensus

In the 1970s, the most comprehensive study on climate change (and the closest thing to a scientific consensus at the time) was the 1975 US National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council Report. Their basic conclusion was "…we do not have a good quantitative understanding of our climate machine and what determines its course. Without the fundamental understanding, it does not seem possible to predict climate…"

This is in strong contrast with the current position of the US National Academy of Sciences: "...there is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring... It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities... The scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action." This is in a joint statement with the Academies of Science from Brazil, France, Canada, China, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United Kingdom.

In contrast to the 1970s, there are now a number of scientific bodies that have released statements affirming man-made global warming. More on scientific consensus...

Reasoning Behind Cooling Predictions

Quite often, the justification for the few global cooling predictions in the 1970s is overlooked. Probably the most famous such prediction was Rasool and Schneider (1971):

"An increase by only a factor of 4 in global aerosol background concentration may be sufficient to reduce the surface temperature by as much as 3.5°K."
Yes, their global cooling projection was based on a quadrupling of atmospheric aerosol concentration. This wasn't an entirely unrealistic scenario - after all, sulfur dioxide (SO2) emissions were accelerating quite rapidly up until the early 1970s (Figure 2). These emissions caused various environmental problems, and as a result, a number of countries, including the USA, enacted SO2 limits through Clean Air Acts. As a result, not only did atmospheric aerosol concentrations not quadruple, they declined starting in the late 1970s:

Similarly, if we now limit CO2 emissions, we can also eventually get global warming under control.


Summary

So global cooling predictions in the 70s amounted to media and a handful of peer reviewed studies. The small number of papers predicting cooling were outweighed by a much greater number of papers predicting global warming due to the warming effect of rising CO2. Today, an avalanche of peer reviewed studies and overwhelming scientific consensus endorse man-made global warming. To compare cooling predictions in the 70s to the current situation is both inappropriate and misleading. Additionally, we reduced the SO2 emissions which were causing global cooling. The question remains whether we will reduce the CO2 emissions causing global warming.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

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_subgenius
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _subgenius »

canpakes wrote:Lol, did you borrow that discredited list from ldsfaqs?

I immediately recognize at least one of those titles as an article about the economy ... but because you’re just passing along someone else’s BS propaganda and listing any title that just sounds like it’s about cold weather, you won’t even know it.

Thank you for another demonstration on how to be a shallow tool.

Are you claiming that the referenced articles did not exist as noted?

Image
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_subgenius
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _subgenius »

Gunnar wrote:Subby, the myth that scientific consensus ...

If you take a moment an re-read my post you will note that i was not disputing the science for warming now or cooling then. My glaring point was in response to the poster's confusion of why "people aren't doing anything"...for which my post provided the chicken-little justification. ergo my whole opening line of "incessant is the word that comes to mind, which leads to familiarity which leads to contempt."

The science is not the obstacle it is the contempt.....and now that climate change is becoming inextricably "political", the science is meaningless to either side....so save your breath.
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_canpakes
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _canpakes »

So global cooling predictions in the 70s amounted to media and a handful of peer reviewed studies. The small number of papers predicting cooling were outweighed by a much greater number of papers predicting global warming due to the warming effect of rising CO2.

Exactly. And the science behind it even at that time was remarkably good. Many assumptions and expectations about the process made at that time have been validated in the 40 or so years since.

Poor subs had to resort to posting a list of what averages about 3 articles a year spread across the US, from a time period of 4 decades ago, to pull together a faulty list with some titles having absolutely nothing to do with actual climate change.
_canpakes
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:
canpakes wrote:Lol, did you borrow that discredited list from ldsfaqs?

I immediately recognize at least one of those titles as an article about the economy ... but because you’re just passing along someone else’s BS propaganda and listing any title that just sounds like it’s about cold weather, you won’t even know it.

Thank you for another demonstration on how to be a shallow tool.

Are you claiming that the referenced articles did not exist as noted?

Image

Ooh, great selection. Did you read the article? Not one mention of climate change and not one mention of a future ice age. The article merely notes the challenges in dealing with an exceptionally cold winter.

Thanks for proving my point! : )
_Gunnar
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _Gunnar »

So what do you suggest, Subby? Just give up trying to take any action against what is most probably a very serious and present danger just because it has become too politicized? Like it or not, effective solutions to a problem as big as AGW is conceded to be by the vast majority of scientists with relevant expertise, cannot be successfully implemented without a very strong and concerted political will and governmental action and encouragement.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
No precept or claim is more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
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_Xenophon
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _Xenophon »

It has been done before but here is a link to the actual Time article that Subs shared the cover for.

The astute reader at home will note that it is literally just about a cold year and the problems it presented to the country. No claims or speculations about that one really cold year or if it would be an ongoing trend. Honestly I'm kind of confused how an article making a big deal about how it is "actually" cold for once and that we are experiencing a real winter (the implication being this isn't the norm) is supposed to debunk warming trends...

ETA: Honor with the quicker draw this time
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_schreech
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _schreech »

Xenophon wrote:It has been done before but here is a link to the actual Time article that Subs shared the cover for.

The astute reader at home will note that it is literally just about a cold year and the problems it presented to the country. No claims or speculations about that one really cold year or if it would be an ongoing trend. Honestly I'm kind of confused how an article making a big deal about how it is "actually" cold for once and that we are experiencing a real winter (the implication being this isn't the norm) is supposed to debunk warming trends...

ETA: Honor with the quicker draw this time

Even better than that, just randomly google some of the articles mentioned in subfaps copypasta. Check out the mirror article, funny reads and unrelated to anything subfaps is trying to prove. I think about half of them are just made up (this right wing propaganda list has been torn to shreds on this site previously). It’s not surprising that our resident hair insecure, barely literate tool who rarely leaves his red state holler would be persuaded by an unsubstantiated list that that he believed supported his stupidity because, words. You just need faith I suppose, faith and hope and the ability to copy and paste a bunch of words.
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_subgenius
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _subgenius »

Gunnar wrote:So what do you suggest, Subby? Just give up trying to take any action against what is most probably a very serious and present danger just because it has become too politicized? Like it or not, effective solutions to a problem as big as AGW is conceded to be by the vast majority of scientists with relevant expertise, cannot be successfully implemented without a very strong and concerted political will and governmental action and encouragement.

No I didn't suggest or even recommend giving up...or doing anything for that matter. What I pointed out was that you, and your compatriots, are in that loop of doing the same thing while expecting different results. Clearly your long lasting and consistent strategy of condescension and outrage for anyone who doesn't agree with your position isn't working and people are so familiar with that strategy that co tempt is all you are receiving for your efforts, correct?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
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_canpakes
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Re: Why Is Trump So Eager to Do Putin's Bidding?

Post by _canpakes »

subgenius wrote:Clearly your long lasting and consistent strategy of condescension and outrage for anyone who doesn't agree with your position ...


You should make a note that any condescension and outrage is usually reserved for shallow tools who use discredited lists of materials that both do not apply to the discussion and have not even been researched by the denier.

Respect is earned, not gained by copy/pasting bogus BS.
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