Minimum Wage Rises - Bad Restaurants Go Out of Business

[_Chap]

Would it be fair to consider the exceptionally low wages paid to restaurant personnel in most states to be a form of taxpayer subsidy for keeping poorly-managed or low-quality restaurants in business?

That's the way I see it.

Me too.

People who run big businesses love a situation where they have full-time employees, but don't have to pay them enough to live on, safe in the knowledge that welfare payments paid by the rest of the population will keep their staff fed, clothed and able to turn up to work.

What do you think should be done about that? Shouldn't employers have to pay full-time workers enough to live on without having to go onto welfare?

[_canpakes]

That's the way I see it. And for every minimum wage worker who won't accept this extremely low wage, you've already let in over 30 million illegal immigrants who will. That's treason and putting party over country. The Democrats should be held accountable for giving the country away.

You say that as if every business using illegal labor was owned by a Democratic Party voter, when the reality is probably very different. The party you favor is likely the same party of choice of a whole lot more of these business owners than you want to acknowledge.

Keep in mind that a wall makes little difference, if employers simply refuse to hire non-citizens. Ask yourself who is doing the hiring, and why.

[_Brackite]

That's the way I see it. And for every minimum wage worker who won't accept this extremely low wage, you've already let in over 30 million illegal immigrants who will. That's treason and putting party over country. The Democrats should be held accountable for giving the country away.

That's absolutely false. Another reason why I am glad that I left the Republican party.

[_ajax18]

What do you think should be done about that? Shouldn't employers have to pay full-time workers enough to live on without having to go onto welfare?

We could start by enforcing the minimum wage laws we already have instead of allowing the government to make exceptions and essentially pick winners and losers in the economy. I think the taxpayer subsidizing a millionaire CEOs cheap labor force is ridiculous.

I wonder why we can't have e-verify in place. It really doesn't make any sense to talk about doing anything if we're not willing to enforce our borders.

Absolutely false. Another reason I am glad that I left the Republican party.

From Pelosi's own mouth, "Walls are immoral." I think the Democrat party fits better with your values and interests as well Brackite. Where do you now stand on the minimum wage question and the expensive public retirement pensions that are bankrupting states like California and Illinois?

[_ajax18]

You say that as if every business using illegal labor was owned by a Democratic Party voter, when the reality is probably very different. The party you favor is likely the same party of choice of a whole lot more of these business owners than you want to acknowledge.

Keep in mind that a wall makes little difference, if employers simply refuse to hire non-citizens. Ask yourself who is doing the hiring, and why.

I aknowledge that Jeb Bush, John McCain, Paul Ryan, and now even Mitt Romney deserve as much blame for this as the Democrats. Trump was the first candidate to push for real border enforcement in over 50 years.

[_Brackite]

From Pelosi's own mouth, "Walls are immoral." I think the Democrat party fits better with your values and interests as well Brackite. Where do you now stand on the minimum wage question and the expensive public retirement pensions that are bankrupting states like California and Illinois?

I have never really been for raising the minimum wage on the federal level. I am though in favor for states and cities raising their own minimum wages.

Back in 2013, the Democratic controlled Senate passed a comprehensive immigration reform bill that included building extra barriers on the border. But the controlled GOP House never took up that bill. And they never did their own comprehensive immigration bill like that they stated that they will. Link

The Republicans recently had controlled of both the House and the Senate along with the White House. During that time, the GOP controlled Congress didn't pass an immigration bill that would have moved the immigration system to a more merit based system. They also didn't pass a bill to change the asylum laws in order to reduce the number of individuals coming from Central America. But they did manage to pass a big tax cut bill that ended up increasingly the National debt. Around 82% of those tax cuts went to the top 1%. And the National debt under Trump has now increased by $2.28 trillion. Link Link

Why aren't the Republicans as concerned about the National debt now as they were back when Obama was President??? Why aren't Rush and Hannity talking as much about the National debt anymore???

[_canpakes]

Trump was the first candidate to push for real border enforcement in over 50 years.

There’s no real border enforcement going on.

While Trump puts on a show about building 13 miles of border wall, where have his efforts been on E-Verify, or increasing the number of CBP agents? How diligently has Trump addressed funding for immigration courts, or legislation that addresses the hiring of non-citizen labor?

Has the cap on foreign visa’s issues increased since Obama left office, or decreased? (hint: the correct answer is not ‘decreased’)

Of the 144 seasonal workers hired at Trump properties in 2016 and 2017, only one of them was an American citizen. All of the others were foreign guest workers with H-2b visas.

The Base is too proud to acknowledge these realities, but that doesn’t make them go away.

[_ajax18]

What do you think about the public sector unions now? Should the taxpayer really be on the hook for Jesse Jackson's $8500/month in congressional disability for the next forty that he lives? Is that sustainable as long as we tax the rich?

Why aren't the Republicans as concerned about the National debt now as they were back when Obama was President??? Why aren't Rush and Hannity talking as much about the National debt anymore???

for what it's worth, I think you have a point and some conservatives have admitted as much to me back when Obama was in office and we were talking about the debts astronomical numbers. The national debt is still a huge concern in my mind. Where we differ is that I believe it should be lowered by getting rid of social welfare programs and a class of people for which these programs have become a way of life passed down through 6 and 7 generations now. I think we have to keep America competitive to attract corporations and investors. It may not be fair that corporations pay less tax but the alternative is not having them pay a higher tax. The alternatives is watching them leave and take their capital elsewhere in the world. And the economy is doing quite well right now.

I have never really been for raising the minimum wage on the federal level. I am in favor for states and cities raising their own minimum wages.

I'm in favor of a minimum wage increase as long as it is consistently and evenly enforced. Otherwise it's really no different than the situation with our current immigration laws.

[_ajax18]

The Base is too proud to acknowledge these realities, but that doesn’t make them go away.

Do you have a candidate in mind who is stronger than Trump on border enforcement? There's not much competition is there?

[_canpakes]

The Base is too proud to acknowledge these realities, but that doesn’t make them go away.

Do you have a candidate in mind who is stronger than Trump on border enforcement? There's not much competition is there?

I can’t honestly answer that because I haven’t paid much attention to any candidates yet. But based on Trump’s performance, nearly any candidate has the potential to be stronger on actual, effective border policy, as opposed to merely spouting talking points during rallies and building the occasional dozen or so miles of ‘wall’ every half-year, after ignoring the issue for the first two.

Fair warning; I’m not a single-issue voter.