ldsfaqs wrote:Res Ipsa wrote:Seriously? Why do you think guys who claim that CO2 “cannot” warm the atmosphere are worth spending five minutes on? On what basis do you find these papers “promising?” There is a reason why these guys aren’t submitting stuff to peer reviewed publications, where their papers have to comply with basic physics.
Yes, I’m open minded, but not so much that my brains fall out.
I'm not following the conversation, but I don't think anyone is saying that.
What most I know say is that it has "little" effect on warming the atmosphere.
C02 is such a VERY TINY portion of atmospheric elements, that it's not even close to a "primary driver" of Temps, etc.
The other issue is the Temp/C02 historical record clearly shows C02 FOLLOWS Warming.
If you zoom in the 1,000's of years timeline of Temp and C02, you see that C02 almost entirely follows Warming occurrences.
That's a scientific fact per the data...
So, your "scientists" are starting from a false premise at the outset.
Yes, I know you’re not following the conversation. The authors of the paper mukwit referred me to actually claim that adding CO2 to the atmosphere cannot cause it’s temperature to increase.
Faqs, you keeping making that CO2 argument like it’s something no one’s heard of before. It’s been answered thousands of times.
Over the scales of the ice ages, scientists know and understand that the main driver of those changes was the Milankovitch cycles. As the planet warmed, sequestered CO2 was released, warming the planet more. It’s called feedback. It can both be true that warming can Increase greenhouse gases, like the thawing permafrost is now, and that increasing greenhouse gases can cause the atmosphere to warm.
During the ice age cycles, we humans weren’t around to add gigatons of CO2 to the atmosphere every year. So, what’s happening now is different. Before, it was warming that added CO2 to the atmosphere. Now it’s us. And if you go look at those charts that show the range of CO2 during the ice age cycles and on up to the present, you’ll see that CO2 levels are dramatically higher than they were during the ice age cycles.
To top it off, we know where we are in The Milankovitch cycles. We should be cooling. So, something has overcome the sun’s influence and is driving temperatures up when changes in solar energy should be making them go down. And that something is our addition of greenhouse gases.
When you acknowledge that CO2 warms the atmosphere, you’re admitting that if humans add CO2 to the atmosphere, it will get warmer. We are adding lots of CO2. So, it has to warm. What happened before we were around doesn’t change that.
See:
https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”
― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951