Anyone Watch the Latest Democrat Debate? Anyone care?

[_canpakes]

When you die, everything's invisible; it is a bridge to eternal unconsciousness.
....

what a bunch of babble..but im guessing its the opening verse on "PoMM scriptures; a self-involved testament".
nevertheless how about a CFR on your claim.

You are free to present your own evidence otherwise.

(You will not be able to do that, of course. You can go, now. )

[_Some Schmo]

I enlisted services in an effort to keep myself safe, and I invited my God into the situation.

So I don't know what is wrong with that. When I think about death I think it's either like being put out on an eternal Propofol drip from which you never awake or it's like being born all over again.

Either way is okay with me. Meanwhile I invite my God into my life every day.

That shouldn't matter to anyone so long as I am not trying to inflict my beliefs on your life.

You're right; it doesn't matter to me.

I was just sharing my observation that anything I've ever done in my life was a result of me doing it (with the support of society and loved ones, of course). There's simply no god component in that equation; it's not needed. Loved ones are enough for me.

I keep going back to Darth Vader. He's a fun character. People indulge in thinking about him and the surrounding stories. There's nothing wrong with it at all, if that's your thing. It's just when people want everyone else to behave in a way that gives Darth Vader special privilege, that's where it becomes problematic.

You're not pushing Darth Vader, so you're fine with me in that regard.

[_Some Schmo]

by the way, Jersey Girl, that's a scary experience and I'm glad you pulled through.

[_Jersey Girl]

by the way, Jersey Girl, that's a scary experience and I'm glad you pulled through.

Thanks, I appreciate it so much. The past two years of my life have been a white knuckle ride for sure. I'm in such a good place now it's astounding. I have my life back now. :-)

[_Jersey Girl]

I enlisted services in an effort to keep myself safe, and I invited my God into the situation.

So I don't know what is wrong with that. When I think about death I think it's either like being put out on an eternal Propofol drip from which you never awake or it's like being born all over again.

Either way is okay with me. Meanwhile I invite my God into my life every day.

That shouldn't matter to anyone so long as I am not trying to inflict my beliefs on your life.

You're right; it doesn't matter to me.

I was just sharing my observation that anything I've ever done in my life was a result of me doing it (with the support of society and loved ones, of course). There's simply no god component in that equation; it's not needed. Loved ones are enough for me.

I keep going back to Darth Vader. He's a fun character. People indulge in thinking about him and the surrounding stories. There's nothing wrong with it at all, if that's your thing. It's just when people want everyone else to behave in a way that gives Darth Vader special privilege, that's where it becomes problematic.

You're not pushing Darth Vader, so you're fine with me in that regard.

I don't want anyone else to bend to my spiritual beliefs. Part of that belief is respecting that everyone is on their own path and we experience the world and our journey through it in different ways. I've never been in 'sales'. I've always just tried to be a friend to folks when I can, do right by the guy next to me, and make choices where I can sleep at night if you know what I mean.

[_ajax18]

Death doesn't scare me that much. I've never been to Australia, so from a certain perspective, I've been dead in Australia my whole life (I've never been conscious there). It's not so bad.

I suppose if death were just like you slept very deeply as if under anesthesia and woke up not remembering anything but this time you didn't, how could that be bad? It's just nothing. But this is impossible in my mind. If you exist at one time, you cannot just cease to exist in any way shape or form. There are always consequences to everything we do while alive.

[_Gunnar]

Yes, I was describing a nature vs nurture dynamic. Tell me, if you will, how my biological makeup is my greatest influence. Since we're picking me apart and all.

Well, I'm not picking on you specifically; I believe everyone is more influenced by their biology than their environment.

While I agree with you that this is largely true, I still think that environment is far from insignificant. Yet I also think some people are more malleable to environmental influences than others, but this is, again, subject to one's biology.

Why do I think that? Lots of reasons, really. For one thing, I grew up in a family with lots of kids. We all grew up in the same basic environment, and yet were are all our own person. Some of us turned out secular, and some still go to church. What's the difference, if not our specific biology?

Based on twin studies I have read about, I agree that this is generally true. Studies of identical, orphaned twins who were separated soon after birth and raised separately, without even knowing about each other until they accidently found each other after achieving adulthood, often turn out much more (sometimes even amazingly more) similar to each other in almost every way, including personality and temperament, and religious, music, occupational, political, sports, food and even spouse preferences, than non-identical siblings raised together in the same family their entire childhood.

Why do I consider myself conservative and my brother considers himself liberal? Nobody taught us explicitly to be one way or the other. It's what's emerged as we've grown older, despite having very similar life experiences.

Though I no longer consider myself strongly conservative, and consider myself leaning more towards progressive and liberal, I can understand why you consider yourself conservative, though I agree with you far more often than not. I very seriously doubt, however, that the likes of subgenius and ajax would agree that you even remotely conservative! I imagine (and hope) that you and your liberal brother are not so different from each other that you no longer like and respect each other.

There's that old saying, When the student is ready, the teacher appears. To me, that's saying that we are influenced by our environment at the very moment we choose to be, and not one second before.

This is probably quite compatible with everything else said in this post.

[_Gunnar]

Listen I have got to decompress over here. I'll be back. I'll leave you nature/nurture folks with this to consider. Not formatting this properly.

Here is your development as a child exquisitely described in one fell swoop.


There was a child went forth every day
Walt Whitman - 1819-1892

There was a child went forth every day,
And the first object he looked upon and received with wonder or pity or love or dread, that object he became,

And that object became part of him for the day or a certain part of the day . . . . or for many years or stretching cycles of years.

The early lilacs became part of this child,
And grass, and white and red morningglories, and white and red clover, and the song of the phœbe-bird,
And the March-born lambs, and the sow's pink-faint litter, and the mare's foal, and the cow's calf, and the noisy brood of the barn-yard or by the mire of the pond-side . . and the fish suspending themselves so curiously below there . . . and the beautiful curious liquid . . and the water-plants with their graceful flat heads . . all became part of him.

And the field-sprouts of April and May became part of him . . . . wintergrain sprouts, and those of the light-yellow corn, and of the esculent roots of the garden,
And the appletrees covered with blossoms, and the fruit afterward . . . . and woodberries . . and the commonest weeds by the road;

And the old drunkard staggering home from the outhouse of the tavern whence he had lately risen,
And the schoolmistress that passed on her way to the school . . and the friendly boys that passed . . and the quarrelsome boys . . and the tidy and fresh-cheeked girls . . and the barefoot negro boy and girl,
And all the changes of city and country wherever he went.

His own parents . . he that had propelled the fatherstuff at night, and fathered him . . and she that conceived him in her womb and birthed him . . . . they gave this child more of themselves than that,
They gave him afterward every day . . . . they and of them became part of him.

The mother at home quietly placing the dishes on the suppertable,
The mother with mild words . . . . clean her cap and gown . . . . a wholesome odor falling off her person and clothes as she walks by:
The father, strong, self-sufficient, manly, mean, angered, unjust,
The blow, the quick loud word, the tight bargain, the crafty lure,
The family usages, the language, the company, the furniture . . . . the yearning and swelling heart,

Affection that will not be gainsayed . . . . The sense of what is real . . . . the thought if after all it should prove unreal,
The doubts of daytime and the doubts of nighttime . . . . the curious whether and how,
Whether that which appears so is so . . . . Or is it all flashes and specks?
Men and women crowding fast in the streets . . if they are not flashes and specks what are they?

The streets themselves, and the façades of houses. . . . the goods in the windows,
Vehicles . . teams . . the tiered wharves, and the huge crossing at the ferries;
The village on the highland seen from afar at sunset . . . . the river between,
Shadows . . aureola and mist . . light falling on roofs and gables of white or brown, three miles off,
The schooner near by sleepily dropping down the tide . . the little boat slacktowed astern,

The hurrying tumbling waves and quickbroken crests and slapping;
The strata of colored clouds . . . . the long bar of maroontint away solitary by itself . . . . the spread of purity it lies motionless in,
The horizon's edge, the flying seacrow, the fragrance of saltmarsh and shoremud;

These became part of that child who went forth every day, and who now goes and will always go forth every day.

Excellent poem! I have heretofore not been very familiar with Walt Whitman, probably to my detriment.

This may seem silly, but the first thing that really stuck out to me was the phrase, "esculent roots of the garden," because I had never before encountered the word "esculent." I had to look it up in the dictionary. It's a delightful word! Thanks for adding to my vocabulary! Do you know what it means?

[_Jersey Girl]

Excellent poem! I have heretofore not been very familiar with Walt Whitman, probably to my detriment.

This may seem silly, but the first thing that really stuck out to me was the phrase, "esculent roots of the garden," because I had never before encountered the word "esculent." I had to look it up in the dictionary. It's a delightful word! Thanks for adding to my vocabulary! Do you know what it means?

That's odd. I was under the impression that Criddle had the dictionary or so you said. That poem was in one of my child development texts from years ago. I came to refer to it often and introduce others to it when I can.

Edible.
;-)

[_Gunnar]

"We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children."

What's wrong with that? I guess that's where we differ. I don't even see this as being at odds with anything in the Bible, which proves my point that the Bible certainly doesn't condemn racism as you folks use the term.

My desire to secure the existence or future for children does not in any way depend on what their color, race or cultural background is.