Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

[MG 2.0]

But I think that a critic is also, if they are being honest, obligated to see the points made by folks such as Rasmussen, Hales, and others, as having merit. Enough merit to actually be reason to see the Book of Mormon as the product of the divine.

LDS apologists can't get their scholarly work taken seriously by any non Mormons. This is not due to anything except scholarly incompetence. It's the same reason a flat earth journal wouldn't get taken seriously. Mormonism has an enormous burden of proof to overcome and Mormon apologists do not come anywhere close to meeting that burden.

Over on another thread I said:

Tithing seems to be a recurring issue for some.

It’s a tough commandment to follow/obey for those that are not all in for one reason or another. There are other commandments that I’m sure are a stumbling block for some unless they have some semblance of a testimony in the truthfulness of the restoration.

There are undoubtedly a certain number of folks that aren’t comfortable living the gospel way of life. That’s got to impact, to some degree, their ‘belief’.

At least in some instances I think there is some of this going on in the mix. How much and with how many critics this might apply to is of course impossible to determine.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Back to the OP’s topic….

Anachronisms and anomalies are in the Book of Mormon.

Which serves to prove it was written by men and of men. The book is NOT divine, it's a con. The church refuses to broadcast and discuss the anachronisms and anomalies. The Church only promotes the faith promoting general overview -- a narrative that promotes faith.

This is how your church shows what happened:

for the space of many days







NOW, click the video link and watch how the Church lies about how the real story that enfolded in the Book of Mormon is falsely shown to promote faith:

Lehi's family gathers around a campfire

[drumdude]

LDS apologists can't get their scholarly work taken seriously by any non Mormons. This is not due to anything except scholarly incompetence. It's the same reason a flat earth journal wouldn't get taken seriously. Mormonism has an enormous burden of proof to overcome and Mormon apologists do not come anywhere close to meeting that burden.

Over on another thread I said:

Tithing seems to be a recurring issue for some.

It’s a tough commandment to follow/obey for those that are not all in for one reason or another. There are other commandments that I’m sure are a stumbling block for some unless they have some semblance of a testimony in the truthfulness of the restoration.

There are undoubtedly a certain number of folks that aren’t comfortable living the gospel way of life. That’s got to impact, to some degree, their ‘belief’.

At least in some instances I think there is some of this going on in the mix. How much and with how many critics this might apply to is of course impossible to determine.

Regards,
MG

I’m not sure this engages with my point about the 99 percent of humanity that has never been Mormon and will never be moved by Mormon apologetics. Tithing is not a factor in their evaluation of Mormonism’s claims.

[Moksha]

What abundant fruit and wild honey can be found along the desert coast of the Saudi peninsula?

[Shulem]

What abundant fruit and wild honey can be found along the desert coast of the Saudi peninsula?

It was the fruit and honey imagined in Joseph Smith's mind as he wrote a fantasy story and introduced fire at Bountiful out of sequential order. THAT was a real screw up on Smith's part. All that heavy breathing in a hat got him a little high.

But the Church shows that they had a lovely campfire and enjoyed the comforts of fire at night. But how did they get that fire seeing lord Nephi had not yet struck the stones for his bellows? Hole in the script. It's all BS. Isn't that right MG? And, MG, wouldn't you want your mother to have a hot bath? Wouldn't you want your wife do have one too?

IF only Nephi had struck those stones together the moment they arrived at Bountiful then the story would make a little more sense from that perspective.

[Shulem]

Back to the opening post’s topic….

Can you imagine going without a hot bath for the space of many days simply because holier than thou Nephi has to get his rocks off up in the mountain to talk with God and find out what to do next? Imagine, arriving at the beach and you can't even have a fire or cook a decent meal. Laman and Lemuel should have tied their brother up and thrown the little bastard off the nearest cliff. Nephi was a real asshole. He abused his whole family simply because he was a LARGE man and could get away with it. Joseph Smith must have loved the story.

[Chap]

[...]

This is how your church shows what happened:



[...]

Wait a minute ... that is a picture of Nephi mining 'ore' from which (when he has made a fire, bellows, built a furnace and all the rest) he will produce at best a glowing lump of mingled iron and slag (not liquid iron), which he will then have to process and purify by repeated heating and hammering until he gets wrought iron, from which he will make tools, whose edges he will have to harden to make them usable (not a simple process ...).

But in the picture he is only at the 'getting ore' stage. However, he already has a wooden mallet, making which would have required him to already have a saw, and a great big cold chisel. He could not have made either of those without already having completed the stages outlined above.

However, in order to get the ore and reduce it to smeltable lumps, he needs to use tools that will be the outcome of the process that he is only starting by breaking up the lumps of ore. So round and round in circles we go ....

This story might be categorised as what some have called a 'Robinsonade', after the story told in 'Robinson Crusoe' about how the eponymous hero of Defoe's novel obtained the necessities of life. But Defoe's story is much more plausible than Smith's, because he gave Crusoe the invaluable resource of finding things from the wreckage of a sailing ship, with all the technology of the 18th century behind it.

One man on his own simply cannot recreate metal technology and build a ship starting from the stage where he has to try to make a fire by 'striking stones together'. But the picture is intended to trick us into thinking he can.

[Shulem]

One man on his own simply cannot recreate metal technology and build a ship starting from the stage where he has to try to make a fire by 'striking stones together'. But the picture is intended to trick us into thinking he can.

And look at that finely cut and smooth lumber. Only the best for Nephi. Those cuts could not have been made with primitive tools out on the beach. They had to have been made by power tools.

[dastardly stem]

You say you have.

I think you lost your way in the process.

I’d have to personally meet you and find out WHO you are before I would take you seriously. Especially where so much rides on it.

You may have other reasons for your so called disbelief.

As it is, I’ve looked at the evidence, pro and con, and have come to a different place.

Regards,
MG

This isn't a personal thing, MG. That you think it is demonstrates part of the problem. Let's get to dispassionate information sharing and idea collaboration. Then we get better evaluations of that which we're talking about. That you think this has anything to do with whether you can judge a person worthy or not is silly.

Its obvious you think you have something. But each time you respond I think we're seeing a ton of signs that you simply aren't honest with the data and would rather this be about something else. That's a big problem in these communications. I would hope you'd drop that way of going and embrace a more rational approach. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, but it never hurts to try.

All my best.

[Moksha]

And look at that finely cut and smooth lumber. Only the best for Nephi. Those cuts could not have been made with primitive tools out on the beach. They had to have been made by power tools.

That photo only works as trickery for people who have long since abandoned critical thinking due to lessons on chewed gum and porn shoulders. Without the rudiments of woodworking tools, even a rough approximation of that boat building would not be possible.

But what of this: A flotilla of whales could swallow the Nephites and regurgitate them on the shores of the Delmarva Penninsula. Pretty clever apologetic, eh? Nephites à la Jonah!