Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

[Shulem]

We thank thee O Lord for the ore

[Chap]

We thank thee O Lord for the ore

Hey! Is that Nephi's furnace for producing iron? If so, in what form does he get iron out of it? Is it a slag-rich bloom, or do they credit him with producing the first liquid iron to be run into moulds as pig-iron about a couple of millennia before anyone in Europe?

Do tell ...

[Shulem]

We thank thee O Lord for the ore

Hey! Is that Nephi's furnace for producing iron? If so, in what form does he get iron out of it? Is it a slag-rich bloom, or do they credit him with producing the first liquid iron to be run into moulds as pig-iron about a couple of millennia before anyone in Europe?

Do tell ...

Nephi had all the help he needed to forge tools to build a ship.

[Shulem]

Hey! Is that Nephi's furnace for producing iron? If so, in what form does he get iron out of it? Is it a slag-rich bloom, or do they credit him with producing the first liquid iron to be run into moulds as pig-iron about a couple of millennia before anyone in Europe?

Do tell ...

Faithful Nephi.

[Physics Guy]

If I had a hammer,
I'd hammer out a hammer.

Actually it looks as though after they forged the tools for digging up ore, but before they forged the tools for building the ship, they forged the tools for trimming their beards.

[MG 2.0]

What abundant fruit and wild honey can be found along the desert coast of the Saudi peninsula?

Have you read this essay?

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... is-harbor/

Shulem hasn’t. He doesn’t read apologetic material. My guess is that others are in the same boat…pun intended…that he has built for himself to restrict his speculations.

Khor Rori.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Let's get to dispassionate information sharing and idea collaboration. Then we get better evaluations of that which we're talking about.

No problem. This essay, in regards to the topic of this thread, deals in logic. It also recognizes the hand of the Lord in revealing information to man. Are you able to dispassionately take the point of view that God may have directed Nephi in the building of the ship?

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... is-harbor/

Or is that a non starter?

Regards,
MG

[dastardly stem]

Let's get to dispassionate information sharing and idea collaboration. Then we get better evaluations of that which we're talking about.

No problem. This essay, in regards to the topic of this thread, deals in logic. It also recognizes the hand of the Lord in revealing information to man. Are you able to dispassionately take the point of view that God may have directed Nephi in the building of the ship?

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... is-harbor/

Or is that a non starter?

Regards,
MG

Yes. It's theoretically possible--God could have directed the building of a ship. your linked article argues its possible they could have found the resources needed, or could have found a good location from which to build. I'd say, sure...that too is, at the very least, theoretically possible.

At present, Khor Rori provides a pragmatic theory for how a young man, with no maritime knowledge, could, with divine guidance, construct and sail a large ship stout enough to reach the Americas. So important were the tangible and intangible resources that were possibly available at Khor Rori that these scarce ancient assets provide a rational explanation for why the Lord led Lehi’s family through the hellish desert of Arabia to reach a place where Nephi could learn how to construct, launch, and captain his ship. Even if it is later proven that these assets were not available to Nephi at Khor Rori, Wadi Darbat’s outstanding protected harbor, abundant vegetation, and amazing breakwater for safe passage to the Indian Ocean make Khor Rori a favorable candidate for the site where Nephi built and launched his ship. Khor Rori certainly is a feasible candidate for Bountiful and warrants further research.

I agree with the first part of this. It's possible. I have no issue there. When they say "...these scarce ancient assets provide a rational explanation for why the Lord led Lehi’s family through the hellish desert of Arabia to reach a place where Nephi could learn how to construct, launch, and captain his ship". I say, that's taking it a little bit too far. They'd need to eliminate every other possible location from being able to use magic help from God to build a ship first. That is if God directed them on how to build a ship, he need not be limited to a place that took them that far through the hellish desert. If God magically provided them means and information to build a ship, it is illogical to argue God needed to take the through the travails of the hellish desert to do it. They offer post hoc reasoning, which in this case isn't rational.

[Shulem]

What abundant fruit and wild honey can be found along the desert coast of the Saudi peninsula?

Have you read this essay?

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... is-harbor/

Shulem hasn’t. He doesn’t read apologetic material. My guess is that others are in the same boat…pun intended…that he has built for himself to restrict his speculations.

Khor Rori.

Regards,
MG

I make it a personal policy to avoid Mormon apologetic material like the plague. Those guys are twisted and deceptive. I don't like subjecting my mind to their poison and wading though their tricks.

No thank you to Mormon apologetic garbage. The world doesn't want to hear it either!

JUST SAY "NO"!

[MG 2.0]

…if God directed them on how to build a ship, he need not be limited to a place that took them that far through the hellish desert. If God magically provided them means and information to build a ship, it is illogical to argue God needed to take the through the travails of the hellish desert to do it.

Alternative location? I’m sure you can come with one that works. Consider time and location, etc.

Oh, is it possible that God had something in mind by leading them through the geography and the experiences they had along the way?

And…what’s with this ‘magic’ stuff? You’re making it appear as though when God supervises and guides his children along it’s all some kind of hocus pocus ‘trickery’ of some sort. I don’t think that’s how God works. Here and there he might do a ‘Red Sea’ thing, but that’s a one in a ______ exception/anomaly.

Leading Lehi and Co. to a place where THEY could do the work necessary to build a boat and get to the promised land is much more up God’s alley, at least in my opinion.

There’s a certain degree of rationality to God relying on folks to learn and grow through experience rather than doing magic tricks, don’t you think?

Regards,
MG