How long/intensely did you believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon?

[MG 2.0]

You are comparing Bigfoot, leprechauns, etc., with a creator God? Discounting and not believing in a creator God for the same reasons you discount those things in your list is easy to do on its surface, granted, but as you dig a little deeper and realize you’re talking about the Creator of all things I think you can see that things get a little messy at that point.

No, I don't see that "things get a little messy at that point."

Of course.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

I believed absolutely until I parted company with the church at age 19.

I had to re-read the opening post since MG has hijacked the thread to bare his testimonkey and I caught this.

I’m happy to bow out at this point if that’s what people want.

Just stop responding and bringing me back in to respond.

It’s that easy.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

in response to the part i bolded, yes, absolutely. they are exactly the same valid reasons we haven't had direct and full reveals from bigfoot, middle earth occupants, little green men in area 51, mermaids and leprechauns, santa claus and fairies and ghosts. They don't exist.

If you're going to argue your case, you'll need to provide your own reasons you think it's valid.

You had me worried for a moment, Marcus. I thought that you were going to mention the Loch Ness Monster along with these mythical creatures.

Just so we're clear, I'm happy with your omission of Nessie from the list: I really dislike it when people dis Nessie!

and just to tie this back in to the OP, as per Doc's reminder, here is an excerpt from one of my all-time favorite X-files episodes, Quagmire:

MULDER: It's been reported for centuries in dozens of countries. From the monsters in Loch Ness, Nessie, to the Ogopogo in Lake Okonagan.

SCULLY: And Lake Champagne, Lalavack Iceland...

MULDER: Sounds like you know a little something about the subject.

SCULLY: I did as a kid. But, then I grew up, and became a scientist.

MULDER: Well some very grown up crypto-zoologist believed it could be an evolutionary throwback, quite possibly prehistoric.

SCULLY: An aquatic dinosaur.

MULDER: A pleosaur, actually. Though admittedly, there's not a lot of hard evidence to back that up.

SCULLY: You know why? Because those creatures don't exist, Mulder. They're folk tales born out of some collective fear of the unknown.

MULDER: Well how many folk tales do you know that could eat a boy scout leader and a biologist?

[later, after killing a giant alligator]

SCULLY: Well, you slayed the big white whale, Ahab.

MULDER: Yeah, but I still don't have that peg leg.

SCULLY: How can you be disappointed? That alligator would have gone through half the local population if you hadn't killed it.

MULDER: I know. I guess I just wanted Big Blue to be real. I guess I see hope in such a possibility.

SCULLY: Well, there's still hope. That's why these missing stories have endured. People want to believe.

(As they turn away, they miss a creature moving through the water - Big Blue)

[THE END]

https://x-files.fandom.com/wiki/Quagmire/Transcript

[Morley]

And yes, I do feel as though my efforts have gone rewarded. For one, I find my butt in the pew almost every Sunday through my own choice. And I think I’m the better person as a result of my activity in the church and walking in obedience to the commandments I believe God has given us to be happy.

And really, that’s all that matters, isn’t it? We can hopefully cling to what makes us better people. I think most folks here feel the same way about what they’re doing in their lives.

By the way, no condescension was intended. I apologize for making you feel that way.

[MG 2.0]

And yes, I do feel as though my efforts have gone rewarded. For one, I find my butt in the pew almost every Sunday through my own choice. And I think I’m the better person as a result of my activity in the church and walking in obedience to the commandments I believe God has given us to be happy.

And really, that’s all that matters, isn’t it? We can hopefully cling to what makes us better people. I think most folks here feel the same way about what they’re doing in their lives.

By the way, no condescension was intended. I apologize for making you feel that way.

Tee hee. Your comment took me back to something President Obama said:

"And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”

Remember that?

I hadn’t seen seen that word in a while. I’m sure that the context within which you were using it wasn’t the ‘Obama context’.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

And yes, I do feel as though my efforts have gone rewarded. For one, I find my butt in the pew almost every Sunday through my own choice. And I think I’m the better person as a result of my activity in the church and walking in obedience to the commandments I believe God has given us to be happy.

And really, that’s all that matters, isn’t it? We can hopefully cling to what makes us better people. I think most folks here feel the same way about what they’re doing in their lives.

By the way, no condescension was intended. I apologize for making you feel that way.

you're a good person, Morley. i appreciate your presence here very much.

[MG 2.0]

And really, that’s all that matters, isn’t it? We can hopefully cling to what makes us better people. I think most folks here feel the same way about what they’re doing in their lives.

By the way, no condescension was intended. I apologize for making you feel that way.

you're a good person, Morley. i appreciate your presence here very much.

I would agree with you, Marcus. At times he gives me some healthy pushback. There is definitely a difference between healthy pushback and unhealthy pushback.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

I believed absolutely until I parted company with the church at age 19.

I had to re-read the OP since MG has hijacked the thread to bare his testimonkey and I caught this. I’m sure you shared it before, but it might be useful for us to know how you managed to bounce on the Mormon church ‘back in the day’ without the aid of the Interwebs. Frankly, I’m always in awe of thos pre-internet days where people here and there fought through the gaslighting and manipulation to figure out the Book of Mormon and Mormon chirch is a con job.

- Doc

PS - > be me, be Mormon god

> make Nephi kill a passed out guy for his Bible, make Nephi wear blood soaked clothese *snicker*

> tell them this has to happen else their descendants will fall away, they fall away anyway *snicker*

> tell them to scratch out “reformed Egyptian” historical records, history lost any way *snicker*

> tell “prophets” to haul plates around, get one guy to haul plates all the way to NY *snicker*

> tell Joseph Smith to “translate” plates, give him an iStone, don’t need plates *snicker*

> be me, be Mormon god

lol.

I left pre-internet also, and filled in a lot of the research details later. i've had a similar thought going the other way-- i cannot imagine finding out about all of this research while you're still in-- that must have been a horrifying realization.

[drumdude]

John Dehlin’s Mormon Stories made the transition much easier. I listened to many Mormons explain their same feelings about discovering the church is not true, and didn’t feel so alone every Sunday. Mormon Stories circa 2011 was the only thing that made weekly church attendance bearable.

[canpakes]

There’s something a bit odd about the notion that we’ve been created and placed on the planet so that we can engage in a lifelong game of hide’n’seek, for the sole benefit of the one doing the hiding.

Why do you think that the fact that essentially God IS NOT the silver platter god I’ve been referring to is a purely a selfish move on His part? Can you think of some valid reasons God might have for not revealing Himself directly and fully to every living being on the planet no matter what?

Regards,
MG

Well, let’s break this down.

1. Pre-mortal existence: Know God!
2. Be tossed into Veil of Forgetfulness.
3. Be born into a mortal body, with a two-tenths of one percent chance of that happening within an LDS family.
4. Stumble through life hoping to hear of or understand a God that hides from you on the daily.
5(a). Die, as a believing Mormon: then Know God! . . . maybe?
5(b). Or, die as a non-believer, and possibly be converted in the afterlife, or not.
6. Be placed into one of several possible post-mortal ‘kingdoms’.

Net result:

- Total number of souls that achieve a higher state of existence than before beginning The Plan: -0- percent.

- Total number of souls that achieve the same state of existence than before beginning The Plan: Less than 100%

- Total number of souls that achieve a lower state of existence than before beginning The Plan: more than 0%

‘Successful’ game participants end up at the same place as they inhabited before. Many game participants do not.

The game is rigged, and as you are denied knowledge of your premortal existence once you inhabit a mortal body, then any frame of reference to the benefits of that existence are eliminated, and you start back at Square 1 in the afterlife. And mortal experiences are not applicable in the afterlife.

There is nothing gained via this Plan aside from some amusement derived from it, for God.

(Apologies if I’ve made some mistakes in how The Plan plays out; please let me know where I went off track)