It's Important to Know What You Don't Know

[yellowstone123]

Will Faith Matters have a visa that I can apply for in a Capitalist society and buy a cheeseburger on Friday night.

[MG 2.0]

I’ve been down with a nasty stomach bug for a couple of days, but it sounds like MG 2.0 has been researching. MG 2.0, have you been able to determine who controls Faith Matters?

Apparently, as I’ve already said, it appears that Faith Matters is run and managed independently of the church.

This might help:

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprof ... /852759608

I’m sure that if those here had wanted to go down the rabbit hole with Faith Matters as they did with Radiant they would have done so. Incriminating’ evidence/information would already have been brought to light.

Nothing yet.

I would expect that with your expertise (Radiant research and findings) that you would be able to quickly pull up information that supports your position that Faith Matters has connections with the LDS Church.

As it is, it appears to be a group of like minded individuals who engage in community and dialogue. Being spearheaded by those on this list:

https://faithmatters.org/about/

There’s a conference coming up later this year. Those don’t come cheap.

Regards,
MG

One thing I forgot to say. I’ve been mulling around in my mind. Why some folks seem to want to find a connection between the church and Faith Matters. I honestly haven’t been able to figure out why.

Maybe someone can help me out.

By the way, Res Ipsa, I hope the source I linked to in my previous post acts as a beginning point for you to try and find any link which you are looking for between Faith Matters and the LDS Church.

Regards,
MG

Hi, MG - please remember UR4:

“Do not "derail" threads or otherwise insert commentary that has nothing to do with a thread's opening post. This includes questioning the motives of, assigning ulterior motives to, or otherwise insulting the person who created the opening post. Start a new thread in the appropriate forum if you wish to do that.”

There’s no need to assume intent when engaging the thread’s subject.

Thanks,

-cp-

[Res Ipsa]

One correction: I couldn't find a renewal of the Radiant Foundation as a dba because the state doesn't make the renewal forms available online. However, the entry for the foundation states that the dba has been renewed and is due for renewal again in 2024. https://secure.utah.gov/bes/displayDetails.html

There is lots more interesting stuff about the Radiant Foundation and BN Media, LLC, that might be worth pursuing in a separate thread. But here's the point: anyone one stumbling upon the Radiant Foundation or one of its two major projects: the Faith and Mediation Initiative and the Skylight App would have absolutely no idea that the Radiant Foundation is connected in any way the with COJCOLDS. Likewise, no one reading a Patheos blog (apparently, even LDS Patheos blogger Daniel Peterson) would have any idea of the connection between Patheos and the COJCOLDS. Both connections are hidden by the way both organizations are constructed.

That's the lesson: MG 2.0 could make exactly the same claims he is making about Faith Matters about Patheos and the Radiant Foundation -- but he'd be dead wrong about the latter two. He either doesn't know what he doesn't know, or he's simply not willing to admit what he doesn't know, and that leads him to make quite sweeping claims even though he has no idea whether his claims are true or not.

So, let's turn to Faith Matters, which is controlled by the Faith Matters Foundation, Inc. We can find that out on the Faith Matters website, but not on the About page, unless you click on certain photos that name the Foundation. We can also find out by clicking the donate link. There we find out "Faith Matters Foundation is a tax-exempt organization under IRS section 501(c)(3), and your donation is fully tax-deductible."

What we don't learn is anything about the Foundation, like where it was formed or where its offices are located. The only way to contact the Foundation per the website is a form you can fill out. No address, phone number, e-mail or other contact information is listed.

But we know that the Foundation is a 501(c)(3) entity, and so we also know that the IRS publishes the 990 returns on its website. Unfortunately, no returns have been posted yet for the Foundation, and the Foundation has not posted them on its website. But we can verify that the Foundation is really a 501(c)(3) entity by looking at the letter from the IRS that notified the Foundation that it had qualified for tax exempt status.



OK, so we can verify that Faith Matters was declared to be a public charity as of August 28, 2020 and that donations to it are tax deductible. More importantly, for the first time we have an address: c/o Brighton Corporation in Meridian, Idaho. And what is Brighton Corporation? https://www.brightoncorp.com It's a real estate development company. And some of the Turnbull family is involved with the company. https://www.brightoncorp.com/our-team/ So, it looks like the Foundation used the business as its mailing address at the time it applied for tax-exempt status. Nothing wrong with that -- it's either that or someone's home address.

But it does tell us where to look for the Foundation itself: Idaho. And, in fact, the Faith Matters Foundation, Inc. was formed under Idaho law. And that gives us access to the Articles of Incorporation. (You can search here, no shekels required.)

So, the important bits of the Articles. They tell the initial composition of the Board of Directors: the four members of the Turnbull family listed under Executive Directors on the webpage. But who appoints the board of Directors? Well it works just like the original set up of the Bonneville Charitable Foundation. The Directors are appointed by the "members."



So, the "members" have complete control over who sits on the board. The identity of the Directors is public information -- the identity of the "members" is not. Even the process for becoming a member is hidden from the public -- it's all in the bylaws, which the Foundation does not have to provide to the public ad which are not posted on Faith Matters.

Now, before my favorite weapon of mass distraction blasts in and blows up yet another straw man, I'm not claiming that this parallel structure between Faith Matters and the Bonneville Charitable Foundation dba Radiant Foundation means that Rusty Nelson or any of the Big 15 are members of the Faith Matters Foundation, Inc. I can't claim that, because I don't know who the members of the Faith Matters Foundation, Inc. are. And neither does MG 2.0. He can't know, because the Foundation was set up to keep that information publicly inaccessible. So, when MG 2.0 claimed there was "no connection" between "the church" and Faith Matters, he made a claim about something that he cannot possibly know. Because he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Here is one thing that I know: there is something very odd about the Faith Matters articles of incorporation. When setting up a charitable organization, it is standard to include a financial anti-conflict of interest provision that prevents the charity's funds from going to those who control it (absent reasonable compensation for services rendered or some other purpose in keeping with the organization's charitable purpose.) In the case of the original set up for the Bonneville Charitable Foundation, it looked like this:



Here's the equivalent clause from the Faith Matters Articles of Incorporation:


Anybody spot the important difference between the two?

[Moksha]

Who would the directors of a corporation owned by the LDS Church place that kind of trust in?

They would put their trust in Russell M. Nelson. If President Nelson asked members of Faith Matters to strap a bomb to themselves and wander into a Sunstone Symposium meeting, they would ask how many pounds of C4. Talk about trust!

Likewise, no one reading a Patheos blog (apparently, even LDS Patheos blogger Daniel Peterson) would have any idea of the connection between Patheos and the COJCOLDS.

I've heard that mentioned a number of times. Here is the thing: The LDS Church likes to be secretive with its assets. They go to great lengths to hide things. They know how to do subterfuge right.

[MG 2.0]

But we know that the Foundation is a 501(c)(3) entity, and so we also know that the IRS publishes the 990 returns on its website. Unfortunately, no returns have been posted yet for the Foundation, and the Foundation has not posted them on its website. But we can verify that the Foundation is really a 501(c)(3) entity by looking at the letter from the IRS that notified the Foundation that it had qualified for tax exempt status.

I think the 990 tax return is in the link that I provided.

Regards,
MG

[Res Ipsa]

But we know that the Foundation is a 501(c)(3) entity, and so we also know that the IRS publishes the 990 returns on its website. Unfortunately, no returns have been posted yet for the Foundation, and the Foundation has not posted them on its website. But we can verify that the Foundation is really a 501(c)(3) entity by looking at the letter from the IRS that notified the Foundation that it had qualified for tax exempt status.

I think the 990 tax return is in the link that I provided.

Regards,
MG

So, the answer to my question is no, you didn't try to find out who controls the Foundation.

[MG 2.0]

I think the 990 tax return is in the link that I provided.

Regards,
MG

So, the answer to my question is no, you didn't try to find out who controls the Foundation.

Honestly Res Ipsa, I’m still mulling over in my head why this is so important to you. I can’t see/find any connection. Until I see the proof in the pudding I will continue to assume Faith Matters as an independent organization not linked with the church. If you are determined to find links/proof otherwise, have at it.

What are you trying to prove?

You’re a lawyer, right? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

There’s something deeper there that’s driving you but I don’t know what it is.

Kind of weird, really.

Start with the 990 form if you’re serious about this.

Regards,
MG

Hi, MG - please remember UR4:

“Do not "derail" threads or otherwise insert commentary that has nothing to do with a thread's opening post. This includes questioning the motives of, assigning ulterior motives to, or otherwise insulting the person who created the opening post. Start a new thread in the appropriate forum if you wish to do that.”

There’s no need to assume intent when engaging the thread’s subject.

Thanks,

-cp-

[Marcus]

. .Start with the 990 form if you’re serious about this...

You have a link to a 990 for Faith Matters?

Coud you post it, please?

[MG 2.0]

. .Start with the 990 form if you’re serious about this...

You have a link to a 990 for Faith Matters?

Coud you post it, please?

Already did. Res Ipsa missed it too. Here it is again:

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprof ... /852759608

Regards,
MG

[yellowstone123]

Very interesting…thinkagain-faithagain.life. It’s still Saturday and the sabbath but I’m tempted to go put a cheeseburger on a credit card and while eating it, drink a coke, and read more on my phone of what honor….posted.