The magic of plates

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

Vanishing plates that are alleged to have been transported to heaven by an angel is an obvious sign that points to fraudulent claims followed by an attempt to cover up physical items which can easily be proven a hoax if handled and examined by those not of the faith. It's elementary, my dear Watson. Smith was never, ever, going to hand over any of the fantastic items whether they be swords, plates, breastplates, spectacles, whatever. The missing stone box fashioned by Moroni is another item that is not available to examine and it coming up missing is a red flag.

Joseph Smith paid no interest in marking the spot of ground in which he found the plates. No marker, no stake, no monument, no memory in which to pay respect other than claiming he found gold plates in a hole in the ground atop the hill Cumorah, somewhere, anywhere, but actually nowhere. Smith was not interested in showing anyone the hole in the ground or paying respect later on by commemorating the hallow ground in which Moroni dedicated the plates through solemn prayer and laid them to rest in a box of his making.

To the apologists: Show us the Goddamn hole in the ground in which the plates were buried! Show us the Goddamn remnants of the sacred stone box in which they lay -- the one that somehow must have slid down the hill into a million pieces! Show us the Goddamn plot of ground in which Moroni appeared!

Daniel C. Peterson, you are a Goddamn liar! The gold plates are no more real than a king's name in Facsimile No. 3. Show me the king's name in the writing of Facsimile No. 3, you Goddamn liar! Show me the name! Spell it out you Goddamn liar!

Amen, and amen.

- Doc

[Gadianton]

When you you reflect on those kinds of things you did as an LDS kid, how does it feel? Does it feel normal?

Pretty normal. Plus, it was a small part of every-day life, which was mostly school, riding bikes, tree fort, baseball, whatever toys we had etc.

Book of Mormon stories aren't that weird to act out because they are pretty stereotypical stories with cookie-cutter good guys and bad guys. The stories of Joseph and the plates are a little more bizarre, but only because it involves a resurrected being. Not too far off in weirdness from Star Wars, which I saw around that time. It comes down to really believing it, but while my parents were known for their high devotion and belief, that didn't translate into excessive time-consuming fixation on beliefs. And it didn't involve extensive object lessons about how our beliefs pit us against the rest of the world, requiring us to act different or fanatically around other people.

It is weird to think about the unbridled wholesomeness that this was all supposed to be about, and then to realize Joseph Smith was fixated on getting his dirty paws on all the women and young daughters of the men he was in business with.

[Res Ipsa]

When you you reflect on those kinds of things you did as an LDS kid, how does it feel? Does it feel normal?

Pretty normal. Plus, it was a small part of every-day life, which was mostly school, riding bikes, tree fort, baseball, whatever toys we had etc.

Book of Mormon stories aren't that weird to act out because they are pretty stereotypical stories with cookie-cutter good guys and bad guys. The stories of Joseph and the plates are a little more bizarre, but only because it involves a resurrected being. Not too far off in weirdness from Star Wars, which I saw around that time. It comes down to really believing it, but while my parents were known for their high devotion and belief, that didn't translate into excessive time-consuming fixation on beliefs. And it didn't involve extensive object lessons about how our beliefs pit us against the rest of the world, requiring us to act different or fanatically around other people.

It is weird to think about the unbridled wholesomeness that this was all supposed to be about, and then to realize Joseph Smith was fixated on getting his dirty paws on all the women and young daughters of the men he was in business with.

Thanks. Mostly normal is how I mostly feel. But every once in a while, I have a “What the hell?” moment.

[Marcus]

we had cardboard swords and props.

Lol. Early in childhood, my parents assigned FHE preparation to me. I had object lessons with props, scripture readings (and informed everyone in advance that they were "required' to bring their scriptures, in case they were called upon), handouts (all handwritten by me, no printers back then), and treats. Also opening and closing prayers, and i conducted the hymns. Occasionally i bribed (well, threatened) a sibling into doing a special number. Costumes were elaborate if it was some sort of holiday, including all the fake Mormon ones.

All my brothers loved me for this. (Not.)

Looking back, i'm pretty sure my parents just took advantage of my everpresent desire to just get up and speak, as well as the ocd that got it done. They got to say "of course we have fhe --EVERY monday night" and i got the residual damage!!!

And it didn't involve extensive object lessons about how our beliefs pit us against the rest of the world, requiring us to act different or fanatically around other people.

sadly, we had that, although we didn't act differently because everyone i knew was Mormon. Everyone. (Deep in the morridor.) There was always this undercurrent that "nonmembers" weren't really even real people. Weird, i know. But i see that now on occasion, in LDS my age, it is really deeply engrained for some.

[High Spy]

Pretty normal. Plus, it was a small part of every-day life, which was mostly school, riding bikes, tree fort, baseball, whatever toys we had etc.

Book of Mormon stories aren't that weird to act out =~

Thanks. Mostly normal is how I mostly feel. But every once in a while, I have a “What the hell?” moment.

My family played games. Mostly a card game my dad called Houdini, that come to find out, most call Oh Hell.

He never went to church, but encouraged us kids to go and he did occasional ward overnight camping.

He also enjoyed beating everyone at chess whenever they was fool enough to host a tournament.

SWK (Spencer W. Kimball) me thinks said stupid stuff about playing cards, especially face cards.

At 16, I joined my buddies working at the COB (Church Office Building), but then quit going.

[Gadianton]

From early childhood you were running all the family FHEs, that's quite an accomplishment.

sadly, we had that, although we didn't act differently because everyone i knew was Mormon. Everyone. (Deep in the morridor.) There was always this undercurrent that "nonmembers" weren't really even real people. Weird, i know. But i see that now on occasion, in LDS my age, it is really deeply engrained for some.

I'm sure it was like that for a lot of Mormons. My dad was a born missionary and constantly bringing people into the church. Wasn't even a hint at looking down at anybody for basically any reason coming from him. The problem that cropped up for me in terms of peer acceptance and religion were within the Church itself. Their enthusiasm was polarizing, which eventually made me a target.

[Moksha]

Smith was not interested in showing anyone the hole in the ground or paying respect later on by commemorating the hallowed ground in which Moroni dedicated the plates through solemn prayer and laid them to rest in a box of his making.

Couldn't the Church pick a random spot of ground on the Hill Cumorah and erect a golden X marking the spot as a commemoration of the sacred hole?

[Marcus]

From early childhood you were running all the family FHEs, that's quite an accomplishment.

nah, i just had a big mouth. I'll take the benefit though, it was great training for teaching, later in life. The trade-off was pretty costly, however.

sadly, we had that, although we didn't act differently because everyone i knew was Mormon. Everyone. (Deep in the morridor.) There was always this undercurrent that "nonmembers" weren't really even real people. Weird, i know. But i see that now on occasion, in LDS my age, it is really deeply engrained for some.

I'm sure it was like that for a lot of Mormons. My dad was a born missionary and constantly bringing people into the church. Wasn't even a hint at looking down at anybody for basically any reason coming from him. The problem that cropped up for me in terms of peer acceptance and religion were within the Church itself. Their enthusiasm was polarizing, which eventually made me a target.

Ouch, i can only imagine. But you're lucky your Dad taught you how to uniformly treat human beings well, without arbitrary judgment. That obviously outlasted the crazy church stuff, thankfully!!!

[High Spy]

Smith was not interested in showing anyone the hole in the ground or paying respect later on by commemorating the hallowed ground in which Moroni dedicated the plates through solemn prayer and laid them to rest in a box of his making.

Couldn't the Church pick a random spot of ground on the Hill Cumorah and erect a golden X marking the spot as a commemoration of the sacred hole?

Joseph Smith received no plates, but said hill is likely across the pond, as per The Wicker Man (The Wicker Man) =~ https://ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=52973

https://ldsfreedomforum.com/search.php? ... mit=Search
Will find a continuation thread in subforum fifty-seven, if you’re a member there.

[Philo Sofee]

Smith was not interested in showing anyone the hole in the ground or paying respect later on by commemorating the hallowed ground in which Moroni dedicated the plates through solemn prayer and laid them to rest in a box of his making.

Couldn't the Church pick a random spot of ground on the Hill Cumorah and erect a golden X marking the spot as a commemoration of the sacred hole?

They could even claim the seer stone showed them the spot.