Mormon Worldview

[Dr. Shades]

Shades, I tried to be clear that I did not intend to say there was a set one answer to every religiously related question in Mormonism. In Mormonism I was never given to believe such a thing. I remember there were different views on questions such as you list. I would expect there still are.

You said there are “millions of Mormons who know what their church teaches.” What does their church teach?

[huckelberry]

Shades, I tried to be clear that I did not intend to say there was a set one answer to every religiously related question in Mormonism. In Mormonism I was never given to believe such a thing. I remember there were different views on questions such as you list. I would expect there still are.

You said there are “millions of Mormons who know what their church teaches.” What does their church teach?

As the opening post asks the question and no reason to hide what it teaches....

The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Chapter 1

1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we
We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith.

One could expand this. The church believes we are spirit children of our creator God. We were in a preexistence before coming to earth and being born. We come here to grow and take steps to become more like God. We fall into error and sin. Jesus son of God, himself divine died as atonement for the forgiveness of sins. There are ordinances which were established by God as necessary help and steps on the path of our progression. There is life eternal with different degrees of glory. The goal is to become like God as God sees his glory in our becoming like him.

Oops I should add: Jesus established his church with his apostles. He gave them authority but the organization lost its clear links and authority was lost and people's speculation took its place. God reestablished the authority to Joseph Smith who started the church. The Book of Mormon was translated from records by ancient inhabitants of the Americas by the power of God.

[drumdude]

In Nov 2017, the LDS church on their proselytizing site Mormon.org rewrote and simplified the Articles of Faith. They're called the "summary" Articles of Faith. I guess that after 150 years it was time for an update. Several changes were made, mostly to get rid of the kind of crazy stuff that Mormons don't really believe or practice. A couple examples:

Old #7: We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
New #7: In modern-day revelation and priesthood healing and blessing.

Old number 8: We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
New number 8: That the Bible and Book of Mormon are both divinely revealed scripture.

Glad to see that the PR department has finally decided to fix the Articles of Faith and make them more palatable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... _of_faith/

The Changing Articles of Faith

By Sandra Tanner

The "Articles of Faith" as published at the back of the LDS scripture, Pearl of Great Price, have undergone a number of changes through the years. In 1841 LDS apostle Orson Pratt published a pamphlet entitled An Interesting Account of Several Remarkable Visions. This pamphlet was the forerunner to Joseph Smith's "Articles of Faith."

Smith reworked Pratt's statement and published the revised text, with thirteen articles, in the LDS publication Times and Seasons.1 In 1850 LDS apostle Orson Hyde published another revised list of articles in the LDS newspaper Frontier Guardian.2 Hyde's account listed fourteen articles. This is the one that was reproduced in Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 2.

However, the first edition of the Pearl of Great Price, printed in 1851, followed the 1842 Times and Seasons printing, with the addition of the word "American" to article ten.

The 1902 edition of the Pearl of Great Price contained a new revision of the text, which is the account closest to the current edition. The major change was to article four: "ordinances" was changed to "first principles."

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/articlesoffaith.htm

[huckelberry]

Drumdude, so the PR department updated the wording. Ok. I do not see a conceptual change. I see a few shifts in emphasis. The little summary I added took me a minute or two off the top of my head. I might have said it differently this afternoon as I suppose my brother might find different sentences to make the explanation.

There are changes in the image the church likes to lead with. I suppose if I was closer to the church that might matter to me more than it does. I was interested in giving pgm1985 some response to his question. Your observation that the church proposes ongoing revelation and authority in its apostles not sola scriptures is an important observation. I thought pgm was looking for more.

[drumdude]

Drumdude, so the PR department updated the wording. Ok. I do not see a conceptual change. I see a few shifts in emphasis. The little summary I added took me a minute or two off the top of my head. I might have said it differently this afternoon as I suppose my brother might find different sentences to make the explanation.

There are changes in the image the church likes to lead with. I suppose if I was closer to the church that might matter to me more than it does. I was interested in giving pgm1985 some response to his question. Your observation that the church proposes ongoing revelation and authority in its apostles not sola scriptures is an important observation. I thought pgm was looking for more.

Since he seems to be asking where the ultimate authority lies, I was telling him that in Mormonism it’s an easy answer. The brethren are the church. Everything else is secondary, including whatever the scriptures, articles of faith, past prophets, or even Jesus Christ said. The brethren can and do override all of it.

[Physics Guy]

For pgm1985’s benefit: “the brethren” specifically means the top 15 church leaders.

[drumdude]

The Catholic Church has a similar mechanism, although implemented very differently.

The last time a pope declared something doctrine on his own was 1950:

https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-most-re ... -statement

Also noteworthy is that when the pope does this, he goes through an actual formal process and it is announced to the world. When the Mormon church does this, like the children of gay parents ban, they hide it inside the church manual with no announcement. They can’t even decide if the proclamation on the family is “thus sayeth the Lord” capital R Revelation or not.

Mormonism is a very uniquely authoritarian religion, similar to 7th Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

[huckelberry]

The Catholic Church has a similar mechanism, although implemented very differently.

The last time a pope declared something doctrine on his own was 1950:

https://www.catholic.com/qa/the-most-re ... -statement

Also noteworthy is that when the pope does this, he goes through an actual formal process and it is announced to the world. When the Mormon church does this, like the children of gay parents ban, they hide it inside the church manual with no announcement. They can’t even decide if the proclamation on the family is “thus sayeth the Lord” capital R Revelation or not.

Mormonism is a very uniquely authoritarian religion, similar to 7th Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Hi Drumdude, we have stumbled into agreement on the doctrinal authority matter. I notice here another source of our apparent disagreement probably hiding actual agreement. I find myself thinking in terms of a difference between doctrine and policy. I think of doctrine as the basic description of our reality and plan of salvation as understood and taught by the church. I think that has been pretty stable. Policy in the details of instructions has changed over and over again. I thought of something like age for priesthood which my rough memory says has changed in the past. I checked church website and find a recent change:

In addition, young men will be eligible to be ordained to a priesthood office in January of the year they turn 12, 14, and 16, and youth will be eligible to obtain a limited-use temple recommend beginning in January of the year they turn 12—based on their “individual worthiness, readiness, and personal circumstances.”

According to materials released by the Church, ages for ordaining young men to priesthood offices are not “doctrinally mandated” and have, in fact, varied throughout Church history. (See Frequently Asked Questions.)

Not exactly earth-shaking news but it is change.

I remember Sunday School was Sunday morning and was preceded by Priesthood meeting. Sacrament meeting was in the evening. Long arrangement, isn't that the way it is suppose to be? But this stuff changes.

I find myself wondering about your proposal that the brethren could up and announce at conference that God the father has no physical body and never has. I see that you are correct they could and the church would live with it .... I suppose. On the other hand, one might suspect that tradition and expectation has some power over the theoretical supremacy of office. But the person in office is not often inclined to test that balance.

[drumdude]

The polygamy ban was just such a revelation. Smith taught that it was the new and everlasting covenant, and was necessary to enter the highest level of heaven.

I can’t think of any doctrine more important than one which is a requirement for eternal salvation.

And another prophet reversed that with one proclamation. I think there’s a good argument to be made that if you believe Joseph was a real prophet, that polygamy may still be necessary and the current church is in apostasy. They chose preserving the church in the face of a governmental conflict over the truth of doctrine.

[yellowstone123]

I can’t think of any doctrine more important than one which is a requirement for eternal salvation.

Exactly, and at the beginning of the 20th century, the saints clearly chose money and property over God's will.

D&C 132:20

20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... t?lang=eng

And good grief, who found a copy of Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine? I thought all had been seized by the Strengthening The Church Committee, where they were made into pulp which they then used to create For Young Men Only pamphlets.