WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

The Off-Topic forum for anything non-LDS related, such as sports or politics. Rated PG through PG-13.
Post Reply
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Gad: I watched a documentary on the Nazi invasion of of the Soviet Union last night. I'm not a WW2 buff, I've not read war histories, so this was new information for me. Cooper's statement makes a lot more sense in context. Markk, as a WW2 expert, should have known better
You can't help yourself but to lie....

This is what Markk said...."I am in no way a WW2 expert, not even close, but I have studied it off and on for the last 50 years as a hobby, and can generally hold my own in general history of both campaigns"

I get you need to lie of affect, in that you can't have a objective discussion about this topic.
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Gad: He could have scored a point against me had he realized Cooper was talking about the invasion of the Soviet Union,
viewtopic.php?p=2897775#p2897775

viewtopic.php?p=2897859#p2897859

viewtopic.php?p=2898859#p2898859

Again you do not even read what I have written.
Morley
God
Posts: 2348
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:17 pm

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:21 pm
Gad: I watched a documentary on the Nazi invasion of of the Soviet Union last night. I'm not a WW2 buff, I've not read war histories, so this was new information for me. Cooper's statement makes a lot more sense in context. Markk, as a WW2 expert, should have known better
You can't help yourself but to lie....
This is what Markk said...."I am in no way a WW2 expert, not even close, but I have studied it off and on for the last 50 years as a hobby, and can generally hold my own in general history of both campaigns"
I get you need to lie of affect, in that you can't have a objective discussion about this topic.
Gad may be referring to this:
Markk wrote:
Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:31 pm
There is maybe no other subject written about, except for maybe religion that I know of besides WW2.
In this, it kind of sounds like you’re saying you’re an expert.

Didn’t you also say that you’d been studying the subject for years?
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:20 am
I have read more books than I could ever remember, and it really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, again join in and let's talk about the war and we you test my general knowledge. I will say a few books that come to mind that made a huge impact was the Rape of Nanjing, Iwo Assault on Hell, and A Tomb Called Iwo Jima. Technical Histories like the Rise and Fall of the Third Rich I read early on, but these days I prefer Bios like I mentioned.
But then, maybe I’m reading this wrong.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 8001
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Moksha »

Markk wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:21 pm
"I am in no way a WW2 expert, not even close, but I have studied it off and on for the last 50 years as a hobby, and can generally hold my own in general history of both campaigns"
Do you have a shrine dedicated to the Waffen-SS in your basement?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 5549
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Gadianton »

Yes, Morley, that's what I was referring to. I don't recall the statement conceding he isn't a WW2 expert. I commend him for recognizing that. I would suggest caution when bragging about one's knowledge unless one can really back it up. I do get it though, that he read a lot of books a long time ago, he got sucked into right-wing politics, and everything since then became about that rather than real knowledge.

I had a teacher in high school with this take on learning:

unconsciously incompetent
consciously incompetent
consciously competent
unconsciously competent

Trite, but, I think there is a point. It's the unconsciously incompetent apologist who can't hide the urge to pee their pants. "Jim Jones was a liberal! Nobody knows about it except Cooper!" even though it's in paragraph 2 of the wiki article.

After butting up against facts; getting owned a few times, you're supposed to transition to the next rung. Weirdly, it's like a feature of right-wingers that this never happens. But, it could happen, and it does happen if a person is seriously interested in improving. Even an apologist for evil can become a better apologist for evil by learning the hard lessons. Instead of coming right out and saying that civil rights are the fruit of cult leaders and we all need to serve Donald Trump in whatever he commands, you're supposed to find some interesting factoid about Jim Jones not a lot of people may know about, that deeply couches the accusation a person wants to get to, and then hope the audience doesn't see the plan for fool's mate.
We can't take farmers and take all their people and send them back because they don't have maybe what they're supposed to have. They get rid of some of the people who have been there for 25 years and they work great and then you throw them out and they're replaced by criminals.
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Morley wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 6:22 pm
Markk wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 4:21 pm

You can't help yourself but to lie....
This is what Markk said...."I am in no way a WW2 expert, not even close, but I have studied it off and on for the last 50 years as a hobby, and can generally hold my own in general history of both campaigns"
I get you need to lie of affect, in that you can't have a objective discussion about this topic.
Gad may be referring to this:
Markk wrote:
Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:31 pm
There is maybe no other subject written about, except for maybe religion that I know of besides WW2.
In this, it kind of sounds like you’re saying you’re an expert.

Didn’t you also say that you’d been studying the subject for years?
Markk wrote:
Sun Jun 22, 2025 3:20 am
I have read more books than I could ever remember, and it really doesn't matter if you believe me or not, again join in and let's talk about the war and we you test my general knowledge. I will say a few books that come to mind that made a huge impact was the Rape of Nanjing, Iwo Assault on Hell, and A Tomb Called Iwo Jima. Technical Histories like the Rise and Fall of the Third Rich I read early on, but these days I prefer Bios like I mentioned.
But then, maybe I’m reading this wrong.
You are very wrong.
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri Jul 04, 2025 7:07 pm
Yes, Morley, that's what I was referring to. I don't recall the statement conceding he isn't a WW2 expert. I commend him for recognizing that. I would suggest caution when bragging about one's knowledge unless one can really back it up. I do get it though, that he read a lot of books a long time ago, he got sucked into right-wing politics, and everything since then became about that rather than real knowledge.

I had a teacher in high school with this take on learning:

unconsciously incompetent
consciously incompetent
consciously competent
unconsciously competent

Trite, but, I think there is a point. It's the unconsciously incompetent apologist who can't hide the urge to pee their pants. "Jim Jones was a liberal! Nobody knows about it except Cooper!" even though it's in paragraph 2 of the wiki article.

After butting up against facts; getting owned a few times, you're supposed to transition to the next rung. Weirdly, it's like a feature of right-wingers that this never happens. But, it could happen, and it does happen if a person is seriously interested in improving. Even an apologist for evil can become a better apologist for evil by learning the hard lessons. Instead of coming right out and saying that civil rights are the fruit of cult leaders and we all need to serve Donald Trump in whatever he commands, you're supposed to find some interesting factoid about Jim Jones not a lot of people may know about, that deeply couches the accusation a person wants to get to, and then hope the audience doesn't see the plan for fool's mate.
Lol, so you are basing what you said, because I said that WW2 may be written about more than any other subject than religion....

That makes be a "buff". Lol...You are just lying more now. But hey just fall back on the ad homs.
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Gad: The invasion of Leningrad, the most truly awful attack on any city in the history of the world, was the high-point of The Hunger Plan. The main success. They bombed the city and cut off all the food. This was September 1941.
I missed this one.

It was a terrible attack and siege.

If you were to actually read about the attack on Leningrad by the Germans you might have a different opinion.

I had mentioned earlier about the war between Russia and Finland, which comes into plan here with Leningrad, so keep that in mind.

Generally, this should be close....Around 1940 or early 41 when Hitler had decided to go into Russia he had his generals but together a plan for the invasion. The plan was for Army Group South to go in and down to the Crimean and the oil fields. While Army Group North would go up to Leningrad and take out the manufacturing centers, and then turn south and and meet Army group at Moscow to take it out.

That plan was however changed, and Hitler sent Army Group North to Leningrad, and Army Group South, to the Crimean, but created a Army Group Center for Moscow. Army Group North was to secure Leningrad, and protect the North flank of Army Group Center, and hold the Baltic region.

The Germans were not prepared for the Russian war, between the dust, mud, and winter, it just was not ready. Army Group North (AGN) was the weaker of the three Armies in regard to Equipment. They, for one, had to basically march from Germany to Leningrad. They had something like 200K horses to pull supplies. Their tanks were the old models and not up for the task. And Hitler keep drawing units from them to go south.

They were however well trained and hard fighters. They fought hard up to Leningrad to take the city. Long story short as they closed in, with no guarantee they could take the city, Hitler pulled the plug and ordered the siege. Not because of any hunger plan, but most likely because of the losses they were taking in the center, in places like Kiev. Others add that the Russian defense was very effective, and of all thing very effective time bombs taking a deep toll of officers, might have been a factor. But the tool they were taking in the street fighting in other areas was probably the reason.

The intent was to defeat Leningrad, not starve it out, if you want insist on that go ahead but it a just laughable in regard to history. The siege aligned with the hunger plan, but it was not the plan. The plan was to take the city, have Finland guard the north flank, and then head south to Moscow. Hitler actually believe that they could do this all before winter by some accounts.

AGN never got into the battles down below, they fought hard all the way to the end in 1945. I suggest you read the history of AGN.

In regard to Finland the ended up watching the northern border but refused to close it all the way off, which allowed resupplying Leningrad from the north. They wanted the territory they lost in 39, and that was 1st and foremost. If they had actually attacked Leningrad, Germany might have been successful with the siege. The Germans also failed in cutting off the east at the lake, Finland helped but not all the way, and they received supplies by boat in the spring and summer, and on ice roads in the winter at the southern end of the lake.

I suggest a book called the 900 days. It it is a must read if you want to know how the folks survived through the siege.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 8001
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Moksha »

Markk for the pro-German, Hitler, and Trump position, and Gad for the pro-Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin position. You might say that the pro-Hitler and Trump position has won, and America is dwindling.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Markk
God
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:49 am

Re: WW2 politics, and leading up to the War and beyond...

Post by Markk »

Moksha wrote:
Sat Jul 05, 2025 1:30 am
Markk for the pro-German, Hitler, and Trump position, and Gad for the pro-Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin position. You might say that the pro-Hitler and Trump position has won, and America is dwindling.
LOL, you do understand that Stalin is responsible for more deaths than Hitler, maybe twice as many. I doubt if Gad would appreciate that.
Post Reply