Why only seatbelts?

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Res Ipsa »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:12 pm
The primary reason for mandating masks now is to avoid overrunning health care facilities.
That's the same reason they gave for the lockdowns initially. Then that accelerated to locdown until eradication and an excuse for more welfare.


At some point in the future, there won’t be enough COVID patients requiring an ICU bed at the same time or facilities will be extended until there are.
Thete will always be another variant and maybe even 6500 caualries per year indefinitely.
You’ve shown several times that you simply don’t understand and are uninterested in learning the actual reasons behind lockdowns. The reasons for lockdowns have always been the same: to slow transmission of the disease so that it doesn’t threaten to destroy the ability of our hospitals to function. That’s what mitigation measures do.

The problem is pretty simple math. We have a relatively small supply of unused ICUs and trained personnel to staff them. There is some slack, but empty ICU beds don’t make money and keeping excess ICU staff around twiddling their thumbs isn’t profitable. That’s a totally expected result of for profit medicine.

Absent mitigation measures, COVID cases increase exponentially. As do COVID hospitalizations and ICU use. If you wait until ICU beds are full to take any steps, the number of patients who need ICU beds will overshoot the supply substantially. You can’t snap your fingers and instantly turn an exponential rate of increase into a decrease.

If you’d been paying attention, infectious disease specialists warned from the first lockdowns that mitigation was not a long term solution. There is a way to keep the transmission rate low enough to prevent hospital overruns without resorting to lockdowns. That way is the bedrock foundation of public health: test, isolate, trace, quarantine. But they require discipline and a willingness to cooperate: something Americans are short of these days. People who had symptoms refused to isolate, people who tested positive refused to isolate. People who tested positive refused to cooperate with contract tracing, and people identified as close contacts refused to quarantine. Because “freedom,” lots of people sabotaged the only way we could have gotten through the pandemic without either lockdowns or a decimated hospital system.

Then, we got what was essentially a scientific miracle. Two companies were able to use a new technique of making vaccines to deliver effective vaccines in an amazingly short period of time. And other effective vaccines followed them. But, because people had let their politics override simple common sense, they refused the free, easy way to significantly cut the rate of transmission of the disease. The people who prayed for a miracle got one, but too many chose to reject the miracle based on political demagoguery.

Yes, there will likely be more variants, but they will have to out complete delta. The next variant to do that will likely be more transmissible, but could easily cause milder disease. Nobody knows. So this gloom and doom forecast of yours has no basis in reality.

Our ability to get through this as quickly as practice depends on all of us working together against the disease. You’ve been promoting practices since the beginning that have resulted in more disease, more deaths, and protracted lockdowns. If you want to be free of mandatory restrictions, put your politics aside, do everything you can to slow the rate of transmission, encourage others to do the same, and stop whining about conditions you’ve helped to create.
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we all just have to live through it,
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Themis
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Themis »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:52 pm
Eventually enough will get immunity from serious disease that will will no longer need certain tools like mask mandates to protect society.
Just like enough became immune to the flu and all it's subsequent variants?
Yes.
There will always be a small percentage of deaths due to COVID. And since this is unacceptable, we will all be wearing masks and ocassioanlly fined or incarcerated for attempting to open up the shop and work long after you and I are both in the spirit world.
Sure, just like the flu which kills a small percentage every year. At that point mask mandates and other restrictions will no longer be done since it will not likely overrun medical capabilities as it is doing right now in many areas of the US. The sad part is if people were not so damn stupid and taken the vaccine you would not be seeing these medical capabilities being over run right now.
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ajax18
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by ajax18 »

The masks will never go away. The lockdowns will return. And you'll always find a way to blame red states and Republucans for that. Why can't you just stay in your own state and let us live our own lives. Shut your border. Ban travel to Florida. Enjoy life in your own utopian biomedical security state bubble.
And when the Confederates saw Jackson standing fearless like a stonewall, the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
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Res Ipsa
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Res Ipsa »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:47 pm
The masks will never go away. The lockdowns will return. And you'll always find a way to blame red states and Republucans for that. Why can't you just stay in your own state and let us live our own lives. Shut your border. Ban travel to Florida. Enjoy life in your own utopian biomedical security state bubble.
Repeating the same claims over and over doesn’t make them credible. You have offered no reasonable basis for claiming that masks will be required forever. And it’s simply a fact that the vast majority of people that refuse to take the common sense steps that would keep our hospitals functioning are right of center. You can live in denial all you want, but those are the facts.

And I don’t recall imposing a mask mandate in Louisiana. (by the way, I hope you and your family are safe.) I don’t believe my Governor has ordered a mask mandate in Louisiana. The only federal mask mandate I’m aware of is for certain categories of transportation. So, if you are subject to mask mandates, it’s your red state doing it.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

No one is wearing a mask in my town. I’ve literally seen zero people doing it, to include myself. Why does Ajax choose to live in a fantasy world where he’s oppressed?

- Doc
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Themis »

ajax18 wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:47 pm
The masks will never go away.
This comment makes me believe you like to troll a bit.
The lockdowns will return.
A number of areas went into lock-down at the beginning of the pandemic, but have never returned to true lock-down.
And you'll always find a way to blame red states and Republucans for that.
The blame is on those who refuse to take a vaccine. Are you saying most who refuse the vaccine are republican?
Why can't you just stay in your own state and let us live our own lives.
It's your state that makes the rules for dealing with covid 19.
Shut your border. Ban travel to Florida. Enjoy life in your own utopian biomedical security state bubble.
Individual rights do not Trump group rights when they start to infringe on those groups rights. Like health and safety. Not wearing of seat-belts cost the rest of society to deal with the consequences. Same with things like meth, but I suspect you are fine with that being controlled.
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canpakes
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by canpakes »

ajax18 wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:07 pm
Societies investment in me is close to zero.
Your choice of occupation literally depends upon a massive amount of infrastructure that you have paid relatively little to create and maintain over the years. Not only for you to do what you want, but for you to remain protected and your customers to exist close enough to you and to be able to frequent your business.
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by canpakes »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:32 am
Caleb Wallace, a 30-year-old father of three, has been unconscious, ventilated and heavily sedated in the ICU at Shannon Medical Center in San Angelo since Aug. 8, the Standard-Times reported. His wife said on a GoFundMe page for household and medical bills that he was was intubated multiple times, had high fevers, infection and bleeding in his chest.

In July 2020, Caleb Wallace reportedly helped organize a “freedom rally” that billed itself as a protest against the “government being in control of our lives.” He also founded the San Angelo Freedom Defenders, which hosted a separate rally last year to “end COVID tyranny.”
Someone’s ‘body’ flew out of the ‘windshield’ and landed in Caleb’s lungs. Caleb, who doesn’t believe in ‘seatbelt wearing’ due to government overreach is expected to double down if he makes a recovery. Qtards are organizing a gofundme for Caleb’s family in the event ‘not wearing his seatbelt’ bankrupts his family because they also don’t believe in socialized healthcare.

- Doc
This guy died.

Now, the society that ajax rues will step in to help this woman.

Perhaps we’d all be better off if they just lost their home and have to starve under a bridge somewhere. That way, both the recently-deceased husband and everyone else can let Pregnant Mom and her three young children tough it out on her own, as Nature intended.

Anything less would be socialism, according to what I’m seeing posted by some in this thread.
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Some Schmo
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Some Schmo »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:49 pm
I have him on ignore for the same reasons, butbutbut, I’ll take him off ignore if he ever decides to engage in good faith arguments. I told him years ago if he would present better or sophisticated arguments instead of just goldfish-pivot-meme’ing his way through a thread he might move the needle to the right with some posters because a lot of us actually hold some historically conservative notions about social conventions and policy positions.
I would too, but I'm not maintaining any hope on that score. I've been giving ajax the benefit of the doubt for years now, and suddenly, I'm feeling foolish for having done so. That ended today.
That said, I find the analogy in the title absurd. It’s akin to:

Seatbelts:

Can get in a car wreck
Can hit a tree
Can die

No seatbelts:

Can get in a car wreck
Can hit a tree
Can die
Can't die from seatbelt asphyxiating you

Therefore why impose seatbelt wearing on the population, because dontcha know you can die from seatbelt asphyxiation? How about:

Bullet proof vests:

Police officers have died from gunshot wounds while wearing bullet-proof vests.

Police officers have survived a gunshot would with no bullet proof vest

Clearly, clearly, they should just not wear them anymore.


Firearms:

Baddies can sometimes get hold of Police Officers firearms

Police have arrested baddies without a gun.

Clearly Police shouldn’t carry firearms.

-_-

Statistics should be a required annual course starting in Middle School (along with Civics).

- Doc
Part of my decision to put ajax on ignore today came from the suspicion that he doesn't really represent the right-wing zeitgeist right now. I think what he writes is a caricature of it. I refuse to believe the general right-wing base is that stupid. They can't be. I know a lot of right-wing voters, and they aren't all damned nuts like that.
Religion is for people whose existential fear is greater than their common sense.

The god idea is popular with desperate people.
Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Why only seatbelts?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

From The Hill’s comments section:
It is hard to say kind things about some arrogant, ill informed, easily manipulated fool - who spouted politicized rubbish about life saving "masks" somehow being 'evil' ...

Someone whose 'Dunning Kruger' unjustified arrogance -
likely contributed to countless people becoming sick ...and some so severely ill - they died.

Wallace was only 30 ... and clearly felt he was special and bullet proof. He and his followers found out the hard way - how massively wrong he was.
Phew. 30-years-old. I feel bad for the wife, and those he influenced. Sad.

- Doc
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