Let’s just add back the bit MG clipped off:
- DocLooks like MG forgot to check in with Islam during, his, uh, intense studies of other religions and philosophies:
As Muslims, we especially have to be cognizant of our perfectionist tendencies, as it an indication of a serious spiritual sickness that cannot only impact us but also our children (or other children in our care) whom we risk passing the trait down to. Seeking perfection is not the goal of the believer.
and still no response to a source for this.
There are definitely many paths to enlightenment. Mormonism is a dogmatic fundamentalist system that actually celebrates arrogance and dishonesty when it comes to defending its "only true and living church" claim. It is either the best, or the worst. There isn't middle ground in Mormonism's self portrait.
You’re not interested in getting back to topic. You are simply avoiding posts that contradict your world view. And ignoring what is actually being said and/or presented. Or using twisted logic to say what you want to say.
Dr Moore wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:51 pmThere are definitely many paths to enlightenment. Mormonism is a dogmatic fundamentalist system that actually celebrates arrogance and dishonesty when it comes to defending its "only true and living church" claim. It is either the best, or the worst. There isn't middle ground in Mormonism's self portrait.
As a system, Mormonism falls well short on the things Jesus stood for -- social justice and moral high ground -- and it does so with spectacular lack of self awareness. I believe this is why most people on earth merely tolerate or ignore the existence of Mormonism. Members and leaders may not realize, but Mormonism is rapidly becoming a meme due to its colossal failure to produce anything spiritually impressive or offer enduring enlightenment. The doctrine itself is so rife with contradictions, that the term "perfection" is laughable on any objective standard. Secrets, self-gaslighting and vast wealth are the sum of Mormonism's impact on the world.
No wonder it is hardly worth the time of honest people everywhere to engage the question of whether Mormonism is the best system to follow. The vast majority rightly dismiss it as they do other highly demanding, cultish systems. The ultimate question, which I believe the rising generation is answering with impressive aplomb, is whether Mormonism deserves to exist at all.
Mormons are generally more capitalist than socialist. And… Capitalism is the optimal system for resource allocation, best characterized by two words: "creative destruction." On account of objectively not being what it claims to be, Mormonism as we know it is destined to be creatively destroyed.
And of course, those trapped in the system will cheer the process as the "ongoing restoration."
Everything.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:19 pmLet’s just add back the bit MG clipped off:
- DocLooks like MG forgot to check in with Islam during, his, uh, intense studies of other religions and philosophies:
Repeating what apparently was either ignored or not read.
Definition of Kamal (Perfection) and How It Differs from Tamam (Completion) and Progress
Completion applies when speaking about the parts of a thing, as in the case where a thing is composed of several parts and all the parts are put together, it is said that that thing is complete. In other words, completion pertains to the parts that are necessary to bring something into existence. But perfection pertains to the levels and stages of something. When something reaches completion, there still might be more perfect states for it. Thus a thing could be complete but not perfect. Also, the term progress could apply to a movement that is merely horizontal. However, elevation is embedded in the meaning of perfection. For, perfection is meaningful only in the context of an ascending and vertical movement. Hence, it is possible to achieve progress without attaining to perfection.
I gave the link.
Ok. So we now know the church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ don’t work for you.Dr Moore wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:51 pmThere are definitely many paths to enlightenment. Mormonism is a dogmatic fundamentalist system that actually celebrates arrogance and dishonesty when it comes to defending its "only true and living church" claim. It is either the best, or the worst. There isn't middle ground in Mormonism's self portrait.
As a system, Mormonism falls well short on the things Jesus stood for -- social justice and moral high ground -- and it does so with spectacular lack of self awareness. I believe this is why most people on earth merely tolerate or ignore the existence of Mormonism. Members and leaders may not realize, but Mormonism is rapidly becoming a meme due to its colossal failure to produce anything spiritually impressive or offer enduring enlightenment. The doctrine itself is so rife with contradictions, that the term "perfection" is laughable on any objective standard. Secrets, self-gaslighting and vast wealth are the sum of Mormonism's impact on the world.
No wonder it is hardly worth the time of honest people everywhere to engage the question of whether Mormonism is the best system to follow. The vast majority rightly dismiss it as they do other highly demanding, cultish systems. The ultimate question, which I believe the rising generation is answering with impressive aplomb, is whether Mormonism deserves to exist at all.
Mormons are generally more capitalist than socialist. And… Capitalism is the optimal system for resource allocation, best characterized by two words: "creative destruction." On account of objectively not being what it claims to be, Mormonism as we know it is destined to be creatively destroyed.
And of course, those trapped in the system will cheer the process as the "ongoing restoration."
This keeps getting pushed back as a result of all the static.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 10:07 pmGadianton, canpakes…alternatives?MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 8:31 pm
As an alternative plan, what would you suggest?
That also includes maximum agency.
By the way, I think that, as many have said here, not everyone is cut out to be a member of the church, per se. But that doesn’t mean that 99% plus of God’s children aren’t going to find the same fullness and happiness in an afterlife as me, you, or anyone else. None of us were members of a church in a premortal world [if it exist(s) (ed)]. None of us will be members of a church in a post mortal existence (if there is such an existence).
I would not be at all surprised to find out that we may have ‘signed on’ to a LIMITED scope/range of experiences before coming to earth. Kind of like signing up for school. Primary, secondary, and post secondary education. With options to matriculate to further opportunities either here or hereafter.
The primary reason for coming to earth is to gain a physical body and gain experience. If that experience is not to be had here then it will come later albeit under different conditions. There will be enough folks that have matriculated through the ‘earth program’ that they may well be able to help others along the way in the hereafter.
There are so many paths towards enlightenment and perfection. Mormonism teaches that we reach perfection within a sphere unique to ourselves. My perfection is going to vary from yours. The point is, we are reaching towards completeness/wholeness. Different strokes for different folks. So the fact so few sentient beings that experience earth life do so as members of the ‘true church’ doesn’t really matter. They are gaining similar experiences that they can take into an afterlife.
Work, love, discipline, family, etc.
Terryl Givens proposes that the main difference between Mormons and everyone else is that we have been given authority to build and operate temples and the performance of ordinances necessary for both salvation and/or exaltation. Work for EVERYONE, not just those that are members of the LDS Church.
I think God’s plan is much bigger than we suppose, but I also am of the opinion that the work that the church does through those that accept the fullness of the gospel is critically important in the work of salvation and/or exaltation of God’s children.
The emphasis you place on numbers aren’t of any great consequence. God already knows what that ratio of ‘members’ vs. ‘nonmembers’ is going to be and He’s planned out for it.
D&C 76 gives a general outline of how BIG the plan is and how all encompassing. Especially when compared with general Christianity.
Somehow and somewhere along the line I do think that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ. The only perfect Son of God. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we will all follow Him. We will have agency in an afterlife just as we do here. And yes, we will still travel our own path as we do here, but with the knowledge that there is a Godhead and an overall plan which played a part in the life we came from while on earth.
The longer I live and the more I study, ponder, and pray, I see that ‘Mormonism’ encapsulates the complexity of life and cosmos better, in my opinion, than competing philosophical frameworks or belief systems. None seem to cover all the bases as well as the Restoration Gospel of Jesus Christ. But even the, there is so much to learn and try and understand.
We’re babes in arms.
Regards,
MG
I’ll check back at a later time. I’ve got things to do.
Regards,
MG